Bot-less ELO: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

This has a 12-month dropoff, so includes a number of players who haven't played in a long time. It's the ranking I'll use in both seeding and for determining which signups to accept (of the players who sign up, the top 32 according to these ratings will be accepted). Signup thread and suchlike will go up later tonight!

Yay! And double yay for the bot-less ELO!

I decided to keep the coinflip in as a final tiebreaker if playing games can't determine a winner; mods are now okay with this so we're good to go! Invitations will go out and signups will go up later this week (and I'll publish the bot-less ELO rankings I'll be using for seeding and qualification).

At this point it's the Spring 2020 CL, but it is finally happening!

I’ll agree to disagree, no more!

If I tie a worse ranked player, I would demand that they advance, I would expect more of myself and refuse to rest on my laurels, a tie against a worse ranked opponent is a loss, and hats off to their superior (relative) performance, period.

In a case when symmetry can make it impossible to separate, it's either a coin flip (as in the FIFA World Cup), a rank (as in UEFA Champions League), or a potentially infinite sequence of replays. I think those are the only options. If the mods won't accept replays nor coin flip then rank is the only one left. It's actually a little strange that they won't accept a coin flip.

Of course, you wanna put some silly in game measures in between (SC count, etc) to avoid that this tiebreaker is used in most cases. But you still need it at the end if tiebreaking is to be an algorithm (i.e., terminate after a finite number of steps).

No no no. It's universal in competitions that you must beat a champ to dethrone a champ. If you only tie then ranks remain the same. With your rule it's beneficial for players to loose a few game before the tournament begins, to drop in rank. Systems where it's beneficial for players to loose are against the whole principle of competing.

RoganJosh wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2020 7:46 pm

Finally, if nothing else separates:
5. Who has the higher rank.

FTR/FWIW - I would never have the higher rank be a tie-breaker, I feel very strongly that a tie-breaker in a tournament should be based on the performance in that tournament, if a lower ranked player ties a higher ranked player then the lower ranked player has performed better in the tournament relative to quantified skill level and thus should be rewarded accordingly.

captainmeme wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:59 pm

I got an email back from the mods a week ago that I need to respond to (which I completely forgot about, so thanks for the reminder :D ).

You’re welcome for the reminder, thank you for your time and effort organizing this tournament, *very* much appreciated!

captainmeme wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:53 pm

At this point my rules state 'after much banging of the TD's head against the table, a coinflip will determine which of the three players advances', which the mods took issue with on the basis that a coinflip shouldn't be used to determine eliminations. But I'm kinda stuck on how to resolve that situation in a way that doesn't allow for tie after tie after tie.

At first I thought you meant that the game itself equates to a coin flip and I was excited to get another GTO vs. Exploitative flamewar between swordsman and the GTOverlords.

I think you should skip the replay in the group stage altogether. Takes time. Here's a bunch of things that can be used as tiebreakers:
1. Number of wins.
2. Is Austria still considered stronger than France? Then the number of wins as France.
3. Who won their games the fastest.
4. Who picked up the most centers in their losses.

Of course, you can make a separate table only including the two/three tied teams.

Finally, if nothing else separates:
5. Who has the higher rank.

The main point of contention is what to do in the case of a 3-way tie in the group stage (either for 1st, 2nd, 3rd or for 2nd, 3rd, 4th).

Current rules state each player involved in the tie plays one game against each of the other 2 involved in the tie - which is fine, but that can 3-way tie again.

At this point my rules state 'after much banging of the TD's head against the table, a coinflip will determine which of the three players advances', which the mods took issue with on the basis that a coinflip shouldn't be used to determine eliminations. But I'm kinda stuck on how to resolve that situation in a way that doesn't allow for tie after tie after tie.

MadMarx wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:08 am

captainmeme wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:07 am

I need to do a few more things to get the go-ahead from the mod team.

How’s everything coming together? Please let me know if you think I might be able to help with anything!

Have done the things, I got an email back from the mods a week ago that I need to respond to (which I completely forgot about, so thanks for the reminder :D ). We should be able to have signups up by early March assuming the mods agree with the changes.

captainmeme wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:07 am

I need to do a few more things to get the go-ahead from the mod team.

How’s everything coming together? Please let me know if you think I might be able to help with anything!

I'd be down for my regular ass-kicking delivered by xorxes, RJ, and/or CptMike

Unfortunately the Champions League is only for the top 32 seeded players in 1v1 (or at least, the top 32 who are willing to play). The 1v1 Showdown is an open to all tournament but takes a hell of a lot of effort to run - I *might* be able to do that later in the year but definitely not right now :D

I will participate in a tournament if we do one

Good question! I was planning to use overall just because I forgot FvA individual rating existed (it didn't when I was playing :D ), but going by FvA rating makes more sense so I'll do that.

I've also decided that I'm going to skip players who haven't been active for more than a year when sending out PMs, just to speed things up; they can still sign up by PMing me or posting here if they're still around, they just won't have a guaranteed spot.

captainmeme wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:07 am

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Note this is all time (no dropoff) because that's what I'm planning to use for the tournament.

Thanks for your time and effort on this captainmeme, much appreciated!

Will you be seeding/inviting players based on their FvA Rating rather than their Overall Rating?

PS - Good luck getting the go-ahead from the mod team, though hopefully you won’t need it!

badivan1 wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:22 am

@captainmeme If you have the time, you could revisit the 1v1 articles on your blog. While they are good introductions to the metagame, there are a lot of details and nuance that haven't been explored.

I think I've been out of the loop on the variants for far too long to speak with any kind of authority on the current metagame :D But I'd be happy to host a guest post if anyone else wants to add to the articles there. I might write another if I get properly playing again, but I'm not certain I was ever the right person to be writing these, since my play tends to be based more on instinct than longterm strategy.

Quick update on this:

The webDip dev team are still working on a good solution to remove bot games from GR, but in the meantime, I implemented a somewhat hacky solution that calculates 1v1 Elo excluding all games played by Kestas Bot. The resulting 1v1 GR is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

Note this is all time (no dropoff) because that's what I'm planning to use for the tournament. It's likely tournament signups will take a little while because my process will be inviting the top 32 players (minus myself), then moving on to the next if people decline or don't respond until the tournament fills.

I also need to do a few more things to get the go-ahead on this from the mod team, but I'll keep yall updated.

captainmeme wrote: ↑

Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:11 am

I'm actually now thinking that I should start in January, to give players time to get back on the Elo list. It also means there's time to fix the fact that bot games are currently included in the ratings, because that's skewing things quite a lot at the moment.

Early January?!