As always, if you are affected by a natural disaster or an event that prevents you from connecting to play your games, email webdipmod@gmail.com to have your games paused.

Finished: 11 AM Tue 17 Feb 09 UTC
Diplomacy-8
1 day /phase
Pot: 88 D - Autumn, 1911, Finished
Classic, Survivors-Win Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by Sanateer (519 D)
12 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1903: GameMaster: Sanateer has taken over Russia.
20 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: GameMaster: Kusiag has taken over England.
20 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: can anyone else not even believe that we are beholden to England to make his move? wow.
20 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1907: sorry england but thank you!
21 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1907: i just finalized right before you said that lol
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1909: twice in one game
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: /draw
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: GameMaster: SINister has voted for a draw.
Voted: SINister Remaining: chelseapip,Sanateer.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: /draw
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: GameMaster: Sanateer has voted for a draw.
Voted: SINister,Sanateer Remaining: chelseapip.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: Thanks for MetaGaming against me. When I got into a position to attack France then I should have realised why Russia stabbed me.

This is not good game play - outside friendships should not influence results as this spoins the game for other players.

If you want to play a team game with friends declare it as such at the start and use a Password.

Sorry Guys I cannot draw this game so you will have to obliterate me if you want a draw.

This is the only way I can get revenge on what you have done as well as posting in the Forum.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: My only response is that France and I don't generally ally unless there's some kind of specific reason to. More often then not France and I have been enemies. It just so happened that I figured I could trust a player I've played with before more than you, you I've never played with before. Some one was going to betray someone and you happened to be that person. I'm sorry for the confusion.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: It would have helped to have been told that you new France as this may have made me feel less secure with our agreement. I feel that you used me when it suited you then threw away an alliance that could have worked because of an out of this game friendship.

Additionally this has been made worse by the fact that are blatently playing for a draw. The aim of the game is to win.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: Why would I have told you that I was going to ally with France in the end until I knew you couldn't do anything about it? Secondly, YOUR aim may have been to win, as you can see, I'm prepared to win, but since I didn't come into this game fairly (I took over a six SC Russia in civil disorder) I'm happy to draw it.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: The Fact is that FRANCE invited you into the game - you then used me to assist in the wipe out of a threat to you.

You then obtained a position from which you could win - but because France Invited you in you ARE going to draw with him.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: You can still draw, although I admire you going out fighting like this.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: You've nailed it. Although it's quite long-term for this game, I've exchanged a favor for a favor. This game seems to involve a lot of using people to some ends. If you don't like that part of the game you might want to play Risk where you can win simply by luck. There are points to be won here. A draw seems more than fair don't you think?
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: Does France have nothing to say on this subject ???
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: At least he does not appear to be trying to defend what has happened.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: I think you are being a tad ridiculous to be honest. The three of us had alliances throughout the game and all three of us made it to the end. Russia and I did not work together til the end of the game when you were the only person left and it would have been advantageous for either of us to take you out because you were the weakest. You can look at the other games we have played and see that more often than not we are enemies rather than allies. Quit complaining and move on. If it's that big a deal don't play with us in the future.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: I'm wrong to defend myself? You could have drawn this game and come out with some points. There's a reason that we bet before starting the game. Now? There is no choice but to make sure you get no points.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: /draw
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: GameMaster: Sanateer has withdrawn his vote for a draw.
Voted: SINister Remaining: chelseapip,Sanateer.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: I think you can be sure I will not play with either of you in future.

RU aware that Metagaming is frowned upon.

The point I am trying to make is that Russia could have claimed the win and syas that it is about points. He will get more points for a win than a draw.

I feel that I have been cheated in this game as at one point I had many more SCs and Russia could have toekn Northern Mainland easily but chose to go after me instead, which was aided by France also attacking.

It has been said in the posts already and Russia has admitted to wanting to give you the draw as a favour.

ALL I am asking is that you make players aware of your friendship (not alliance) so that they can think carefully before exposing Scs to you.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: The only thing I think is up for debate here is whether players who have played with each other before should be obligated or encouraged to share these connections with players in a given game. I would submit that there is no such obligation, moral or otherwise.

This game in particular I'm not really ready to argue about because as you can see, I've also made it in France's interests to attack you. If I were truly Metagaming with France why would I protect myself like that. I simply gave France an incentive to align with me over you. Further, what I was saying about points was that since you may or may not have been treated unfairly, I was agreeing to France's draw to leave you some points.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: On this game particularly, why would I want to give you some reason NOT to ally with me? That seems counter to my interests as a player hoping to possibly win the game.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: You're seeing things that just weren't there until the end of the game when you were the ONLY option. Sure we could have fought each other but it would have gone nowhere because we both had relatively the same strength at that point in time. It made more sense, epecially in the Balkans for Russia to attack you because you were the weakest. Your friendship didn't dictate those circumstances, you floundering around in the Mediterranean for an entire game did.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: Our*
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: I seem to remember a point in the game though where I exposed myself to FRANCE by letting them into Piedmont which I would not have done if I had been aware of the out of this game friendship.

Anyway as I have said before It is not the alliance that bothers me but the blatent PLAY FOR A DRAW ATTITUDE.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: The point is that this game is ALL ABOUT trying to figure out other people's relationships and deals and using them to your advantage.

The idea to draw only came up at the end and for YOUR benefit. If you would rather be soundly decimated then so be it.

I think there's a distinction between being outplayed and being cheated that you are muddying.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: The Piedmont thing is pointless because it moved right to Tyrolia which I would have done through Munich anyways. It actually slowed me down a turn from attacking you.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: How do either of you explain the French front line being totally exposed but Russia not taking it??
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: epic battle?
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: Which one - The Game or the Messages !
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: both, it's going to 17/17 SC's and i think they're going to line up and bash each other over the head for 1 more, idk russia should just take greece and be done with it
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: He Had Greece Last Spring and moved out in Autumn - They are playing for an AGREED DRAW - See Forum Posts.
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: so they're going to split like 90 D?
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: Yep !
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: They even offered me the opportunity to share in the Draw !!
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: well fighting them was foolish...

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Russia
Sanateer (519 D)
Won. Bet: 18 D, won: 528 D
18 supply-centers, 17 units
France
SINister (132 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D, won: 440 D
15 supply-centers, 14 units
Italy
chelseapip (303 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D, won: 29 D
1 supply-centers, 3 units
England
Kusiag (1683 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Turkey
Manatee_X (146 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Germany
j0nne (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Austria
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Archive: Orders - Maps - Messages