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Finished: 04 AM Mon 16 Feb 09 UTC
WHERE THE NIGHT-ROSE BLOOMS
1 days /phase
Pot: 80 D - Autumn, 1914, Finished
Classic, Survivors-Win Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by RealityCheque (1735 D)
12 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1904: hi guys, I am going to be a way for a week from Friday, could we please pause ubtil I get back?
12 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1904: /pause
12 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1904: GameMaster: njrsax has voted for a pause.
Voted: njrsax Remaining: Kerrigwen,RealityCheque,Alqazar,kaisertimothy,Muizer.
12 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1904: /pause
12 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1904: GameMaster: RealityCheque has voted for a pause.
Voted: RealityCheque,njrsax Remaining: Kerrigwen,Alqazar,kaisertimothy,Muizer.
12 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1904: /pause
12 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1904: GameMaster: kaisertimothy has voted for a pause.
Voted: RealityCheque,njrsax,kaisertimothy Remaining: Kerrigwen,Alqazar,Muizer.
12 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1904: /pause
12 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1904: GameMaster: Kerrigwen has voted for a pause.
Voted: Kerrigwen,RealityCheque,njrsax,kaisertimothy Remaining: Alqazar,Muizer.
12 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1905: /pause
12 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1905: GameMaster: Muizer has voted for a pause.
Voted: Kerrigwen,RealityCheque,njrsax,kaisertimothy,Muizer Remaining: Alqazar.
14 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1905: hey guys, I have internet access in the hotel, so pause no longer necessary, thanks!
14 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1905: /pause
14 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1905: GameMaster: njrsax has withdrawn his vote for a pause.
Voted: Kerrigwen,RealityCheque,kaisertimothy,Muizer Remaining: Alqazar,njrsax.
15 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1906: /pause
15 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1906: GameMaster: Muizer has withdrawn his vote for a pause.
Voted: Kerrigwen,RealityCheque,kaisertimothy Remaining: Alqazar,njrsax,Muizer.
15 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1906: /pause
15 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1906: GameMaster: Alqazar has voted for a pause.
Voted: Kerrigwen,RealityCheque,Alqazar,kaisertimothy Remaining: njrsax,Muizer.
21 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1909: /pause
21 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1909: GameMaster: RealityCheque has withdrawn his vote for a pause.
Voted: Kerrigwen,kaisertimothy Remaining: RealityCheque,njrsax,Muizer.
24 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: Really? What made the two of you decide to be life-long allies? Possibly you're friends in real life... cause this is bullsh*t. The whole game, France and Germany work together?!
24 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: Never met him in RL. Funny how people whose diplomacy doesnt work always scream "meta-ally!!!" Bottom line is, you have 12, we have 9 which makes you the obvious target for both of us
24 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: The obvious target for France is you. And if this game at all felt legit, I wouldn't be complaining. But it doesn't. The two of you are also totally cooperating in the game Nonja Monkeys, and again as France and Germany, the two powers least likely to cooperate, structurally speaking. That's the definition of "meta"-ally. And its also cheating, perhaps not according to the letter of the rules, but certainly according to the spirit.
24 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: Wow, you're right - I'd not even noticed we were in Nonja Monkeys together :D Meta-alliances are alliances that are set up outside the game. Hence the 'meta' part. I was actually going to be attacking him in Nonja Monkeys, but England betrayed me so France and I ganged up on him.

However in this game Germany sent me a message asking if I'd be willing to work against you as you have more SCs than us, and I replied that I would. No offence, but this is diplomacy - not happy fluff land. You get stabbed occasionally, don't have a cow about it.

It would be considered cheating if we'd arranged something out of the game, but we didn't. You'll notice that I've left my borders defended, something I would necessarily bother with if Germany and I were best mates who'd planned this from the beginning.
24 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: Incidentally I did plan on attacking Germany early doors, but then Italy started to get fruity - so he got wiped out. Then England started giving me hassle, so he had to die as well. You're a victim of your own success, just give it a rest. If you don't believe us, ask the admins to read the conversations in this game. They'll totally prove our innocence.
24 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: Exactly. You havent gone out of your way to make an ally or even have a NAP with me kaiser, and as I pointed out to France you have a whole bunch of easy SCs due to the collapse of Russia so it makes sense for us to co-operate to stop you running away with it.
I had noticed that we are both in Nonja Monkeys, are France and Germany (albeit the other way around), and have joined forces to stop AH running away with the game after one of his Eastern neighbors collapsed (Turkey in that one). I thought the parallels between the 2 games were spooky BUT I never mentioned them to realitycheque because I DIDNT WANT TO BE ACCUSED OF METAGAMING!!!!!!!! It just happens that in these 2 games we are both placed in 2nd & 3rd place for SCs, and in endgames it is REALLY common for the 2nd and 3rd placed guys to gang up on the guy in the lead, no matter what has happened before. You have to deal with it, and try and use your diplomacy skills to make one of us decide thatwe are better off supporting you instead of attacking you. THATS WHY ITS CALLED DIPLOMACY!!!!!!
24 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: You haven't approached me about dealing with Germany either - and after our little joint adventure against Italy I would have been happy to. (As I've just said to Germany, I play for the points instead of the win. Winning means nothing, but points will get me in more games at once).

As it is, Germany got the request in first. Did you really think we'd sit around and let you win without even a quick "Do you want 2nd place or shall I kick your arse?"
24 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: Yawn. Skips rocks across the Adriatic from Apulia to Albania and back again.
24 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: lol, dont worry, I am sure the last bit of green will get squeezed out soon!
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: Whatever. I still don't believe that both of you could miraculously be France and Germany in two separate games and completely at peace the whole time. But I'd rather lose fairly than do anything the way you have, plus I intend to whoop you both, though I essentially consider you one and the same. But hey, prove me wrong why don't you and get an easy second.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: You know the true diplomat knows when to offer a draw. Antagonizing the enemies by insulting them or being paranoid isn't going to help. I've won more points by being honourable and making alliances and draws than from simply winning.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: As I said, if you don't believe us just get the mods to look at our conversations. There's no hint in either game that we had any kind of meta-alliance.
25 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1910: Look pal I dont appreciate being called a cheat. If I had been you, I would have approached France and Germany separetely. offered them both a deal, and waited for one to bite. I WOULDNT have had a crybaby fit, shouting Its not fair you must be cheating. You have now made it impossible for either of us to ally with you with your childish behaviour. Good Diplomacy, well done!
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: So, I'll throw this out there... anyone interested in a draw? Could be a nice way to peacefully end the game :)
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: /draw
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: GameMaster: Kerrigwen has voted for a draw.
Voted: Kerrigwen Remaining: RealityCheque,njrsax,kaisertimothy,Muizer.
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: /draw
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: GameMaster: Muizer has voted for a draw.
Voted: Kerrigwen,Muizer Remaining: RealityCheque,njrsax,kaisertimothy.
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: Look I called attention to what IS genuinely suspicious behavior. Two games, same players, same perpetual, unbroken alliance. You say it isn't and you aren't meta-gamers. Ok, I don't really care that much, and it's only a game. I'm willing to play it out, I'm willing to draw. If we play it out, I also plan to win. The German player started all this bad blood by disparaging me as "someone for whom diplomacy doesn't work."
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: /draw
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: GameMaster: kaisertimothy has voted for a draw.
Voted: Kerrigwen,kaisertimothy,Muizer Remaining: RealityCheque,njrsax.
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: You could have tried talking to one or other of us, or both, privately if you had suspicions, not suddenly firing up with accusations in the global. As far as I am concerned, YOU started the bad blood by calling me a cheat in Global Chat.
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: /draw
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: GameMaster: Alqazar has voted for a draw.
Voted: Kerrigwen,kaisertimothy,Muizer Remaining: RealityCheque,njrsax.
25 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: i am not inclined to vote for a draw at the moment
26 Feb 09 UTC Spring, 1911: Me neither. No offence to England and Russia, but I never draw when there are 1SC nations still alive if I can help it.
26 Feb 09 UTC Autumn, 1911: perfectly right: that's the reason I was the first to except: all to gain for me by a draw :)
03 Mar 09 UTC Autumn, 1913: What the hell just happened? What happened to
"But I'd rather lose fairly than do anything the way you have, plus I intend to whoop you both,"
And now you RUN AWAY to hand him the win????
Huhhhhhhhhh?
03 Mar 09 UTC Spring, 1914: Call it a strategic retreat. This way I end up with more scs than I would have otherwise at the end of the game and you get screwed, which makes me happy.
03 Mar 09 UTC Spring, 1914: Uh-huh.
"The German player started all this bad blood by disparaging me as "someone for whom diplomacy doesn't work."
Then you bend over for him
Well done

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

France
RealityCheque (1735 D)
Won. Bet: 10 D, won: 507 D
19 supply-centers, 12 units
Austria
kaisertimothy (239 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D, won: 213 D
8 supply-centers, 9 units
Germany
njrsax (100 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D, won: 187 D
7 supply-centers, 8 units
England
Kerrigwen (472 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Italy
Alqazar (403 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Turkey
Deja Vu (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Russia
Muizer (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
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