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Finished: 01 AM Sun 18 Oct 20 UTC
Life of Brian 2: Blessed are the Cheesemakers
1 day /phase
Pot: 25 D - Spring, 6, Finished
The Ancient Mediterranean, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
03 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 1: Hey all
08 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 3: Screw it. Y'all have a good time with this.
09 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 3: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
09 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 3: You know guys, Rome has gotten crushed here. The least you could do is get it over with.

I kind of like this map and I kind of don't. Any two players working together can wipe the board. Last time I played this, as Persia, I was the target. But with a defensible position, I fought them off and was able to change the alliances and survive to draw. With a strong alliance, we kicked butt.

I'd like to see stats on which country wins this most. If it's a large enough sample, I'll bet it is Carthage that wins more often than others, just based on the positions. I don't think the map is well balanced.

This map needs the Celts and/or the Huns (or equivalent). Or sub-Saharan raiders, to keep Carthage honest. Or something. Rome, and to a lesser extent Greece, are vulnerable. Here, facing a Carthage/Greece alliance, I was toast in the second year, with no combination of moves that would alter the result. If I had gone to Dalmatia instead of Vindo, would it have made a difference? Where's the fun in that?
09 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 3: There are stats for this map.

From what I recall, Carthage is stronger and Egypt weaker with Persia/Greece/Rome all doing pretty well.

For your part, whenever two countries choose to attack somebody on this map it bodes poorly for that player. Unfortunately I went for Vind at the same time Carthage moved his units towards you.
09 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 3: Some stats:
https://www.playdiplomacy.com/stats.php?sub_page=5&variant=2&map_variant=-1

https://vdiplomacy.com/stats.php?variantID=9
09 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 3: Cool. Thanks for the data.

I get it about the two on one initial thing. The challenge with only five players is that is easier to do and it could effectively end the game early. The classic map, with seven, makes everyone look over their shoulder even if you have a good ally.

I was surprised to see that Persia has the highest success rate. I would have put it second behind Carthage. And that Greece is more exposed than Rome.

One hopes that there's a game designer somewhere studying this data and thinking about designing balanced maps.

Or maybe that we could use the stats to change the payouts from victory - give more points for victory or survival from the weaker starting positions.

Anyway, it's been fun. I may (or may not) launch Life of Brian 3: He's Not the Messiah, He's a Very Naughty Boy. If I can play Carthage.
09 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 3: Honestly, diplomacy isn't about making every power have an equal chance of winning; we see this clearly in the normal map. Powers start of with different amounts of strength, so that they can use that either as leverage or as pity or whatever for the diplomacy so that they can diplomacy their way to victory. Variants that have been designed to have every power have the same chance, to me at least, are just boring, because the diplomacy has much less nuance.
09 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 3: I mostly agree, but up to a point. Getting crushed before you get to play is not fun either. Some of it is just the way the game goes. But some of it is map design.

The design feature that is most problematic is having the home supply centers strung out on a line unable to support one another, but even that's ok if there is some map feature that provides a defensive tool. Or if, after the opening grab, the collective result has some resiliency. Or natural allies. You almost never see anyone get wiped out quickly in the classic game.
09 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 3: I agree to an extent. I think the issue with this map is it's so easy to drop down to four players quickly as all it takes is one nation to get attacked by two countries and that's them. However the thing about Diplomacy is at the end of the day, it all depends on the people you play with and the neighbours you have. You could be amazing at Diplomacy but still go out first because your two neighbours decide to team up against you
09 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 3: True, it does depend on luck to a large amount. But then again, you could argue that being teamed up on makes you bad at Diplomacy, that the ability to not be teamed up on is a skill of Diplomacy. (Obviously though there are some times when it just happens purely because of the other two players and that can't really be your fault).
09 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 3: Indeed!
09 Oct 20 UTC Spring, 3: Sorry for missing
09 Oct 20 UTC Autumn, 3: It's alright!
10 Oct 20 UTC Autumn, 3: Apologies guys, I normally do submit my orders when I’m ready, but at the weekends I’ve only got access to my phone. It’s easier for me during the week when I’ve got my works computer
13 Oct 20 UTC Autumn, 4: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
13 Oct 20 UTC Autumn, 4: Sorry for the delay

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Carthage
C66_Hardie (199 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 8 D
14 supply-centers, 14 units
Persia
tsvi14 (163 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 8 D
11 supply-centers, 11 units
Greece
Grackaroni (161 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 8 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
Egypt
jeroen10j (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Rome
ajptaylor (88 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Archive: Orders - Maps - Messages