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Finished: 11 AM Sun 18 Oct 20 UTC
Private Teckels
1 day, 12 hours /phase
Pot: 35 D - Autumn, 1916, Finished
Classic, No messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
16 Oct 20 UTC Anyway. Back to France. I had written out 600 words of pretty instructive flame, because I thought OK there are some noobs in this game, maybe he just needs some coaching. But no. He CD’ed, total lack of respect. Not a chance in hell I would ever kill England over him, England played a perfect endgame, thanks England!
16 Oct 20 UTC Now he’s gone so I can’t copy paste all of that, because he’s not even going to read it, sad irony of Diplomacy that the people who most need to read basic strategy, are never going to do it. Total incompetence, complete rubbish, all he had to do was move units to Mar Spa Por, write Portugal hold, Spain hold, Marseilles hold, everything hold, all done, so easy. Every turn HOLD, HOLD, HOLD, not even need to input any orders and just click ready and collect your points because the rest of this board is breaking their back carrying you, so much time to get there, but instead what does he do??? He leaves Burgundy open and builds an army in Brest so that England can sneak onto the line, sits in Paris and Brest while Gascony wide open for Germany armies to pour in. Everyone knows Gascony is not only the best square on the board, but also the key to dismantling France and contesting Iberian dominance, so, does France react? No! He doesn’t care! He only knows how to write one move order and it’s the worst one possible. Spain to Marseilles, every turn I look at the map and pray he will CD so England and I can support him until Germany retreats and then we can kill him, but no, again he writes Spa to Mar.
16 Oct 20 UTC ‘The fleet at Portugal support the army at Spain to hold.’ ‘The fleet at Western Mediterranean support the army at Spain to hold.’ Does he check these orders? Does he even know he can check orders? No, why would he ever do that, that’s too reasonable. Only thing he wants to do is get Spa to Mar, it’s the crusade, nothing else he’ll ever do, wants to move Spa to Mar, moron.
16 Oct 20 UTC F08 look this: Spa to Mar, if it gets there, and Germany back fills to Spa, game over. Of course I knew he goes to Mar and so I bounced him, such an idiot. Then S09, the big failure of Germany to write ENG-MAO, but obviously here even Germany doesn’t even think France can possibly be THIS incompetent, France, of course, demonstrates himself again to be the most lowlife specimen of player possible, a feat of awe-inspiring stupidity.
16 Oct 20 UTC Elsewhere England did his job perfectly to steal into Por, bravo, Austria did all correct support holds, Turkey at least understood how to LEAVE Greece and DISBAND Serbia because he could see slightly more than half a turn ahead!! These people shouldn’t have their points stolen away by a total idiot!! So sorry I killed England and Austria. I really didn't want to kill Austria. I wrote many times, SUPPORT HOLD for Austria, this meant I didn't want him dead!! Turkey and Germany, assholes
16 Oct 20 UTC A moronic endgame. Death to whittling. To stop this, change meta, be the change you want to see. THROW EARLY AND OFTEN, and people will learn not to whittle.
16 Oct 20 UTC I wrote all this when I was super mad. I love you all. Hope you know
16 Oct 20 UTC Yeah not convoying was my bad, absolutely should have. My guess I was pissed off my team lost a football game that day in quadruple overtime and was so pissed I wasn't paying much attention. Either that or I was in a drunken sorrow from the aforementioned game. One of the two.
16 Oct 20 UTC :( I'm sorry for your loss
16 Oct 20 UTC Lol happy to receive the wrath of Seren lol.

Unfortunately I wasn’t a crucial part of the line. I suppose I could have thrown after Germany let up the first time and then re-engaged. I took the gamble that I wouldn’t be carved up the second time. But alas! I should’ve thought more on how I could cripple the line just enough to make me indispensable.

That last set of orders, I was unsure if you’d support into Bud again or if you’d support my hold. I guessed wrong (and should’ve thought it through better!).
17 Oct 20 UTC OK, before I forgot, I had written a lot of nice things about Germany, so I figure, I should say some nice things, before I go to sleep.
17 Oct 20 UTC Germany: Not to simp, but it’s rare that I see such sophisticated and thoughtful play. The board showed the stab coming but even then there was plausible deniability, I’m sure England must have been thinking similarly and that was why he moved to Barents and didn’t bounce NTH. Setting that up and then having the guts to go through with it, about as perfectly executed as I’ve seen. Walking into NTH for free while England has four fleets and was a pretty decent tactician is a coup. Required a certain level of psychological understanding and courage that sets apart the great players.
17 Oct 20 UTC My walking into Munich might actually have helped you there if it tipped the scales in England’s decision not to guard his back. You knew just how inconsequential that army was, but it’s the kind of thing beginners panic over and devote unnecessary resources to purging that unit. Ironic, as I saw you were about to run away with the north and at that time I still thought there was a slight chance I could bring your strength down just a little so that the west would move away from rapid resolution and preserve my chances of growing. Of course, the next turn made that impossible. Just as well, because Austria chose that time to collapse and so if the east got to resolve it wouldn’t be in my favour.
17 Oct 20 UTC Very well played – the diplomacy of putting to rest England’s fear of being outgrown so that you could stab cleanly with just two fleets, incredible. A joy to watch.
17 Oct 20 UTC Caleb, I thought your endgame play was great, I didn't want to kill you, I only attacked because I was sure Turkey was attacking. I would have thrown, in your position, for sure.
17 Oct 20 UTC @seren no chance I whittle Austria the second time after Claesar came down. I'll trust a back off play by the board top once but never twice. If you didn't attack in content to wait until the end.
17 Oct 20 UTC I'm not in *
17 Oct 20 UTC You went to Moscow and kept in Aegean..maybe you say you didn't want to whittle..but all your orders indicated otherwise. You accepted Germany's offering and didn't DMZ, all signals, = Turkey wants to kill Austria
17 Oct 20 UTC As Bush the Younger once said, "Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on -- you won't get fooled again!"
17 Oct 20 UTC I'm kinda old school, I think if Turkey really wants to make peace with all defenders on the line, move everything that's not needed in the direction of Syria
17 Oct 20 UTC Yeah probably should have pulled Aegean back
17 Oct 20 UTC It was funny though..the one army going to Moscow. It looked so nervous. Kind of like 'please sir, I want some more SC' while tiptoeing, like wow I'm really being given an early Christmas gift??
17 Oct 20 UTC Tbh I thought it was going to bounce
17 Oct 20 UTC I did it for the lolz so when he came back I could make gotcha jokes after
17 Oct 20 UTC Also. I was voted draw since like 1905. Who was holding out??
17 Oct 20 UTC Germany, such a dick
17 Oct 20 UTC I put mine up in 1911 I think
17 Oct 20 UTC My vote had been in for a long time lol.
17 Oct 20 UTC I'm sorry everyone... I'm sorry for my bad play, and i am even more sorry for my CD... I really wanted to join back, but i had a temp ban so i couldn't...
17 Oct 20 UTC And yes Italy, i have read anything you said
17 Oct 20 UTC Everything*
17 Oct 20 UTC Thanks for the game everyone.

I'd second jasnah's praise for that German stab. I'm afraid I can't actually remember what I was thinking (particularly because you'd just moved to Denmark). But clearly I thought wouldn't risk it - perhaps because of MUN. You proved me wrong. In retrospect, HOL-NTH was a cheap defense and I should have played it.

One huge factor there was France's decision to let me die. If they simply don't cut the Channel in S1904, the war with Germany is rather interesting. I was rather surprised they chose to side with Germany, and thought the result of that was entirely predictable.
17 Oct 20 UTC agree
17 Oct 20 UTC Hey Tobie, I am sorry for posting that rant instead of the other more constructive thing I had written (I write a lot when I'm going crazy talking to myself in GB). I should have looked and seen it was you and realised that of course you would care about playing the game and so saying that you CD'ed because of a poor position is overly uncharitable.

Apologies to beat the dead horse again – but here's what I'd originally written, before I got super angry one day and devolved into a rant:

Obvious from 03 that Germany was going to be the solo threat and so given the DSS scoring, France here has two objectives: delay Germany long enough that the south has time to consolidate, and then secure your own position on the line. France did the first part well, but not the second. By S07 the south is getting its act together and Germany has also gone as far as Sev which means it’s time for you to get to your part of the line.

From S07 France should have just one aim: get units to Mar, Spa and Por, and then write Portugal support Spain, Spain hold, Marseilles hold. Done. I’ll arrive with my fleets to support you, Germany is stopped at 16 or 17 (unless he backs off the line later to induce a smaller draw, but you don’t really have better options), easy draw. Everything else is pointless, useless self bounce in Burgundy pointless, army in Brest poor, fleet is needed to get to Por and stop England from getting there instead. Rest of the north needs to be abandoned to Germany ASAP. There is no way you can fight back against Germany in that position, none. Correct strategy is to secure your part of the line which sends a message to the rest of the defenders that you can be relied upon to write the correct orders, increasing your chance of making it into the draw and avoiding risks of throwing to the soloist unnecessarily.

S08 a blunder. Correct orders in S08 will involve Brest or Paris going to Gascony, this is so that Germany does not order Bur -> Gas, Mun-> Bur which would have prevented us from establishing the stalemate line. In that situation Spain is the SC that absolutely must be held along with one of Por or Mar, here has to be Por because you didn’t get to Mar earlier. (Technically it's possible to stalemate just Por and Mar via double cutting MAO and Spa, I believe, but we would have needed an additional fleet in position to defend WES that we didn't have.) Mar can be sacrificed because we have Sev, but if you give up Spa, it’s game over. We're very lucky Germany bounced you in Mar rather than filling into Gas and Bur. Otherwise we could have lost then and there.

F08 again order Spa to Mar. If it had actually gotten there would have been game over, German solo, as Germany gets both Spa and Por and can’t be evicted after that. If Germany had here written ‘Burgundy support Spain to Marseilles’ then it would really have been game over, short of genius guessing from all of me, England and Turkey. This is why checking the Orders tab when there are units that aren't doing anything on the board, is important. If you had checked, you would see that Tom and I both supported you to hold, I think this is a pretty good reason to hold, if you couldn't trust me to be encouraging your best interests you could at least trust Tom, who was pretty much in the same boat as you at that point.

As Tom already pointed out, cutting Channel was a bit of a strategic error beforehand - whatever the intended goal of it was, it was probably wise to leave England alone entirely, because, and this was exactly what happened, Germany was strong enough that he would be the overwhelming beneficiary of England's death. And that's the end for France as well.
17 Oct 20 UTC Tom, such a pretty convoy to Edi, I knew then that England was no pushover. Lots of English players don't realise that the #1 and only viable way really to defend the English homeland is with an army on the island. Three fleets will get outmanoeuvred very quickly. Take note, great English play despite the one fatal blunder. Just Hol-NTH would have saved England (France not cutting ENG would have given a fighting chance too).
17 Oct 20 UTC I definitely should've gone to Gascony in S08 in hindsight.. But I overestimated France to defend it. Plus, I thought I could still break through further in the east. That was naive.
17 Oct 20 UTC Teccles, I honestly wanted to work together with you (for a lot longer). What am I supposed to do with Hol H though? I didn't gift Holland to you so you could lounge around! I know you saw the support. Either move to Belgium (if you trust me to be super competent, which would be fair after Bel S Nth-Hol) or go back to North Sea. Bal-Den was just a safety play. If you move back to Nth (in Spring!), I kick Italy out of Munich instead and we have a nice 3-way draw unless you give me a chance to stab for a solo (which is unlikely).
Now instead you gave me a chance to stab you for 2.2 centre (Nth is worth more than a centre). I take that stab if there's an opportunistic (at best) English fleet in Holland.

I don't think your mistake was to not move to Nth in A03. It was to not do so in S03.
17 Oct 20 UTC Thanks!

I'm afraid my memory really is failing me on this one. I can't remember at all what I was thinking in 1903 (and perhaps this correlates with me not having thought hard enough). The move to BEL looks dodgy - rather like a stab, because you don't have many units around there - but HOL-NTH definitely looks right. Particularly, HOL H is an obnoxious threat to Kiel.
17 Oct 20 UTC And yes, I was obviously the hold-out for the entire game. Didn't give up on my solo until S11. Don't care if you think that was too late; I deserve my chance to try.

I wouldn't have cut out England or Austria if I were in your positions (don't blame the system!), but my honour does allow me to grant others the opportunity to do so. After all, what did England and Austria do for me?

TFB, imo you started cutting Austria 1.5 turns too early. The second try was much better.
17 Oct 20 UTC To me, Hol-Bel looks less like a stab than Hol H (provided Edi-Nwg).
17 Oct 20 UTC Others may disagree, but those wouldn't have ordered Bel S Nth-Hol.
17 Oct 20 UTC Agree. HOL H is the worst of the three, unless I genuinely want to attack Kiel or something. I'm very sure I didn't, and it was just an error.
17 Oct 20 UTC Claes, of course I have no issue with you holding out. You have to give yourself a chance.

I really thought you would solo after the feint - Turkey had to take War/Mos before moving on Austria, although since that would have tipped off Austria, most likely Austria should have just been let to live. His 3 units were actually a very strong position.
17 Oct 20 UTC I don’t have the kind of genius required to write Bel S NTH Hol.

And I think you have made a mistake, NTH alone is worth 2.5 SC in GB
17 Oct 20 UTC You had a 3.5 dot stab
17 Oct 20 UTC One concrete thing Austria could have done is walk to GAL in A1913, build an army, and attack WAR.
17 Oct 20 UTC I wasn't trying to solo after the "feint". Just showing it was too soon.

Jasnah, that kind of "genius" just comes from being an alliance player. Putting yourself in the position of your ally and trying to conceive whether they may have concerns or worries. Here, Teccles and I just happened to be perfectly in tune. We both agreed he should have an extra centre to keep things fair.
17 Oct 20 UTC I agree, I was shocked Austria never attempted to use his pocket build, I was so sure he'd have the 4th unit, and then we'd all draw, because he couldn't have been taken out then
17 Oct 20 UTC Thanks Claes, I hadn't thought about it that way. By far my biggest weakness for sure.
17 Oct 20 UTC It's something that can be trained though. Look at the game objectively from their position. Imagine you're playing their country. Go from there.

Of course, it does start with acknowledging someone can be more useful alive than dead ;-)

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Claesar (4539 D Mod)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 12 D
14 supply-centers, 14 units
TheFlyingBoat (1177 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 12 D
11 supply-centers, 10 units
jasnah (17 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 12 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
teccles (1868 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
tobieee911 (97 D (S))
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
AleaIactaEst (886 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
TestSubjector (536 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Civil Disorders
tobieee911 (97 D (S))France (Autumn, 1909) with 5 centres.
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