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Finished: 07 PM Mon 14 Sep 20 UTC
Global Conversations Only
1 day /phase
Pot: 35 D - Spring, 1909, Finished
Classic, Public messaging only, Anonymous players, Sum-of-Squares Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
10 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: I'm a man of my word, France. No issues with Paris. As for Munich, would you agree to move it to Boh or Tyr if I move Sil > Gal? A one-SC stab at this point would be kind of pitiful, hoping it would give us both peace of mind.
10 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Ha-ha-ha! Copy/paste <a man of his word>, after taking half of Russia SCs... :D
10 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Yes, England, I can move to Tyrolia from Munich
10 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: If I recall correctly, England made no firm promises to leave Russia alone.
10 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Russia, you support hold Smyrna (and bounce Con) and I'll support you into Con next season. Sound good?
11 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Not ideal. That could lose me Bulgaria. How about this: I move to Ankara and Constantinople, you move to Aegean (from Ionian or Greece) and Constantinople. That would keep both safe?
11 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Also, England said "I don't want to disrupt Moscow or Ukraine"
11 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Yeah I suppose that would keep it safe. Sounds good to me.
11 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Moderator: (gimix): Dear players, we just want to let you know Austria's messages violated Rule #4 of this site, and the player has been warned to avoid such behaviour in the future.
11 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Good to hear
11 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: It really would have made no difference to you if you'd waited a year to take those 2 France. In fact, if it would have any effect, it would speed up Turkey's death.
11 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Actually, this seems like a good place to draw. France and England have tied scores, winning 17 points each. Continuing will probably only end up with 1 extra point for England and France (unless there is a solo), so why not stop now?
11 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: I was hoping to see Turkey removed first, but I take Italy's point that it seems unlikely now. I'm comfortable with that if others concur.
11 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Are you just worried that France is going to win? It seems like that is where most of the centers will be.
12 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: I don't intend to solo...
12 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Why not?
Shouldn't you try to win given the opportunity?
Of course, I don't want you to win, but I think it would be right for you to try.
12 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: I stay true to my allies when they stay true to me
12 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: In this game, my ally is England
12 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: But what is the the goal of an alliance?
Surely an alliance is intended to be a means of seeking victory, when both players recognize the benefit of mutual trust and cooperation.
If then the trust and cooperation are primarily means to the goal of success (at least in a game), is it not right for a player to break an alliance if a victory is in sight?
Players join an alliance not because alliances feel nice but at least partially because they are useful in seeking victory. So then if alliances are not an end in themselves, why should they be kept as such?
You cannot say it is to ensure a future reputation, because these games are anonymous.

I'm happy to hear reasons otherwise, but those are my thoughts on why it doesn't make sense to refuse to break alliances when a victory is possible.
12 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: I'm with France on this. A draw is still a form of completing the game, and I'd rather draw with a long standing ally like France than grab a petty 1 SC stab that throws off my position on the board. Maybe I'm just sentimental deep down, but while a white lie here and there is one thing, I don't enjoy stabbing a long standing ally where there's a solid trust, mutual benefit and momentum in advancing together.
12 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Then the two of you (and Russia) should submit your draw votes.
12 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Wait, it let's me submit a destroy order to Albania twice. What would happen if that went through?
12 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: I think the same as civil disorder. It would destroy Smyrna, as that is the farthest one as an Italian home center.
12 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: *from
13 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: It destroys fleets before armies and then alphabetically destroys whatever
13 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: I thought it was first by distance, then fleets before armies, and then by alphabet.
13 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: … I am unsure. Italy. Find out
13 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: I checked the rulebook:
If a country in civil disorder has to remove units, the units farthest from the country are removed first. If units are equally distant, then remove Fleets before Armies and then in alphabetical order by the provinces in which they’re located.
I assume the case of a disorder or absence of order is treated as equivalent to that of a civil disorder.
13 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: Ah dang... and yes, if you submit the same disband, it will default as a "misorder" and just make an assumption
13 Sep 20 UTC Autumn, 1908: So in Italy's case, it would go Smyrna, Aegean Sea, Albania, Greece... although I'm not sure why Italy would disband all units if they control Greece... but that's okay
13 Sep 20 UTC So are we not drawing? Do y'all really want that 1 extra point each?
13 Sep 20 UTC Russia, Italy... I'm happy to see your success - so much points, you earned, can't count them even... Congratulations. :)
13 Sep 20 UTC Yeah, France and England can only get at most 1 point without the other decreasing. I take this to mean that they are both entertaining solo hopes.
And Austria, I would like to point out that my current point total matches that which I would have gotten had I done what you preferred.
13 Sep 20 UTC Great. Happy for you. :)
13 Sep 20 UTC Whole point.
13 Sep 20 UTC The plan, made by you and Italy asured a unbreakable stalemate line, and you can have a draw with all your 5 centers (then). But you are the only one of us 4, who didn't saw this... Anyway - still watch this game, just to see the nicknames. :)
13 Sep 20 UTC My draw vote is in. Again, would prefer to see Turkey removed first, but it's probably not realistic.
13 Sep 20 UTC Mine is also in
13 Sep 20 UTC Good game, everyone!
13 Sep 20 UTC GG.
13 Sep 20 UTC Good game! France, Russia, Italy, it was a pleasure.
13 Sep 20 UTC It was indeed, England.
I personally think England and France should have played for the solo. France would have had quite the chance of succeeding, I think. England, I've noticed that you tend to keep your word, but very frequently make ambiguous statements. Is that a fair evaluation?
Germany, I'm disappointed your plans for a solo didn't work out.
13 Sep 20 UTC It was a bit of a long-shot.
14 Sep 20 UTC Very fair, Russia. I think in a game like this, appearing honest while maintaining friendly relations, even after a stab, goes a long way.

I could have tried for a solo last year and I think I had a solid chance, but wasn't sure what I could hold if the rest of you all tried to gang up on me if I stabbed France. Once I moved out of the Channel, the window closed. And besides, I meant what I said - I prefer the more amicable solution in this case.

I didn't have specific goals when I started the game, but by the end my #1 was knocking out Austria, so mission: accomplished.
14 Sep 20 UTC I don't walk into a game thinking "I'm going for a solo", I go into the game thinking "who am I going to draw with in the end", usually (hopefully) it's one good ally. In this situation, it was England, and I'm glad it worked out that way. The thought of stabbing England never entered my mind, I would not have pushed for a solo, even if I had hit 17 SCs
14 Sep 20 UTC If you play the game to draw, why not submit your draw vote Spring 01?
14 Sep 20 UTC Tactics, obviously.
14 Sep 20 UTC Just curious: When you play other games, like monopoly or risk or something, do you play for a draw?
14 Sep 20 UTC I don't play Risk, I hate that game, when I play Monopoly, it depends on the variant
14 Sep 20 UTC When I play HOI4 multiplayer, I play for a draw.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Ricsno (403 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 17 D
13 supply-centers, 13 units
What1881 (152 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 17 D
13 supply-centers, 11 units
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 2 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
Shesk0S (108 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 1 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
wilk0260 (35 D)
Drawn. Bet: 0 D, won: 1 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Stacee_Jaxx (187 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Civil Disorders
0nickname (106 D)Turkey (Spring, 1908) with 4 centres.
Archangel_ (100 D)Turkey (Autumn, 1905) with 3 centres.
GameKat (56 D)Germany (Spring, 1904) with 1 centres.
CatalystFusion (100 D)Austria (Autumn, 1904) with 5 centres.
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