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Finished: 03 AM Fri 17 Apr 20 UTC
1 day /phase
Pot: 105 D - Autumn, 1912, Finished
Classic, No messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
18 Mar 20 UTC Spring, 1901: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
15 Apr 20 UTC Spring, 1910: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
16 Apr 20 UTC GG Everyone.
16 Apr 20 UTC Just curious, I’ve been part of a few games recently where players were unwilling to whittle down the draw size. Any reason in particular?
16 Apr 20 UTC I was willing, I was prepping to do it, all you had to do was to wait. I was going to do it. But I had to temporarily vote draw to make Germany think I wasn't going to do it. MY Draw vote did not mean I wanted a draw, my vote was designed to conceal was I was doing to Germany. You got impatient.
16 Apr 20 UTC and this is also why draw votes should always be hidden.
16 Apr 20 UTC Sorry, misread that. I hate it when a player bangs their head against the wall and wastes everyone’s time. I didn’t want to be that guy, so I voted.

I see what you’re saying about trying to mislead Germany though. Unfortunately you duped me as well. Oh well. Shows the value of hidden draw votes I guess.
16 Apr 20 UTC I needed to have a draw vote up for awhile, while I built and moved more forces around to get ready. Had I not voted draw, Germany might have taken Belgium as precaution.
16 Apr 20 UTC my moves showed what I wanted, so did France's. And Germany showed that he suspected it.
16 Apr 20 UTC wastes time? is your schedule booked 24/7 during covid quarantine? Does another day in an online game, that takes like 3 minutes or less to type in orders, does this "Waste time"?
16 Apr 20 UTC I’m not sure what to say. Sorry I cost you extra points?

Your point total as well as your tactics obviously prove that you’re a very strong and experienced player. No argument here. But why the terse response? And why go the step further and make things personal? I thought my last response was mostly passive and agreeable. I even started with an apology. Why lash out?

Anyway, you’ve given me a new goal to work to towards now; Achieving Schrodinger’s Orders, just as you have.
16 Apr 20 UTC sorry, did not think I was being terse. so, perhaps now, you could kindly stop wasting my fucking time by responding! :)
16 Apr 20 UTC Nope, not terse at all.
16 Apr 20 UTC it's odd to me that in general people like to "get games over with" But why?

games have 24 hours deadlines, usually. Most of us play several games, of course, because one game only takes like 3 minutes to do your orders, maybe more if it's tricky or complicated, but not more than 10 or 15. And with the new auto delay no NMR system, most of us play even more so that the delayed games don't annoy us too much. All of this means that a single game takes like a month or two to play. And we play for fun, right, so why does it matter at all how long a game takes or when a game ends?
16 Apr 20 UTC That’s a very good point. I will keep it in mind and learn from it moving forward. I really do appreciate the feedback. I’m new to Diplomacy and always looking to learn and improve. Thank you for sharing, and thank you for revising the message. All the best. Hope to meet again in the future.
16 Apr 20 UTC it's the same thing with "ready up" People get impatient and urge people to "Ready" their orders, but why? they want to play faster game? Then join a game with faster deadlines, play live if you want a super fast game. I sometimes ready up, but sometimes, I intentionally do not. For various reasons. sometimes, my girlfriend is here for a few days, so I never ready up because I do not want games to move too fast, because I want to spend time with her, not on my games. Sometimes, I want to wait to give others players more time to ponder and change their moves. Sometimes, I have poor internet access, or a busy project, sometimes, I don't. So then there is a group of players constantly urging people to "Ready up" and they even get angry if you don't, but why?

The choice to ready up or not is a free choice that each player can make for their own private reasons, so be it.
16 Apr 20 UTC Bam47, since you're new here, I'll advise you: don't take anything Tugster says too seriously. He's well-known as one of the more toxic players on the site.

And may I say, for a new player, you did exceptionally well!
16 Apr 20 UTC Pinecone333: Thanks for providing the background, and for the compliment. He is right though. It’s just the delivery of the feedback distracted me from considering the message. I’m glad he resent it. I’ll be more patient moving forward.

I was so confused when you wouldn’t move Brest to MAO. I was starting to think maybe I had a shot. But a few turns later I realized you had me stopped. And also that you likely knew that well before I did. That’s where I think my next steps lie, seeing more than 2 moves ahead. Any how, thanks again and I hope we cross paths in the future.
16 Apr 20 UTC >Had I not voted draw, Germany might have taken Belgium as precaution.
Correct. I was eyeing it, but I was a bit worried about pissing off France and losing their draw vote.

>And Germany showed that he suspected it.
Yup. Wow I don't really need to write any post-game analysis, Germany's got me covered XD

>I sometimes ready up, but sometimes, I intentionally do not.
Same here. I accidentally readied up two turns ago, I think? Because France and I had draw votes up, and I wanted the 24 hours to pass to pressure England/Turkey into voting draw. But I clicked the wrong button >.<

I do think there's a social pressure aspect to it though, depending on the personality of the player. @Turkey, when I was newer on this site, I also felt the way you did. I didn't want to waste people's time. But Tugs is right here, you don't need to feel that way :) we all signed up for 24 hour turns, we know what to expect, so just keep enjoying Diplomacy at your own pace :)

>don't take anything Tugster says too seriously
I'm of two minds on this, as shown by this other game where I tried to get people to be less mean to each other :/
Being angry at someone for their moves is fine and normal, verbally abusing someone in post-game chat is not. I've had a game or two where I waited ~24 hours before commenting in post-game chat, just to cool my head a bit.

But it's also hard to read intent/sarcasm, and I think that maybe Tugster was having some fun in this chat :)

>and this is also why draw votes should always be hidden.
I agree in general.

All this having been said...I kinda deserved being thinned. My fleet build in W02 was dumb. In my defense, I thought that Russia would defend the north and that I could ally with them to push out England from scandinavia. not what happened. I should have built an army and rolled east to capture Warsaw, since I had the French frontline blocked up. Could have possibly formed an E/G.

After that mistake I did alright, but nothing special. I was just trying to delay from A07 onwards so that the Turkish solo threat would let me make the draw.
16 Apr 20 UTC Yeah; since I knew I didn't need the fleet down South, I thought it best not to make myself too tempting a target for a backstab ;). It's tough to break through the bottleneck of the Western Med. Many solo attempts have been stopped there.
16 Apr 20 UTC GG
16 Apr 20 UTC My strategy was more-or-less just to survive the whole game. I do apologize to you, Germany, for nabbing Belgium when you tried to make peace with me. But I didn't want to attack Italy with Turkey getting so big, and I didn't have enough navies to go after England; at the time it seemed like my only way of getting another build.
16 Apr 20 UTC >I do apologize to you, Germany, for nabbing Belgium when you tried to make peace with me
No need, I thought you had time to take me out and still hold the stalemate line, but then Italy's move of VEN -> TYR in S08 was too galaxy brain and led to a much faster collapse.
16 Apr 20 UTC Didn't help you Germany that Russia was grasping at straws from fall of 1903 onward. He started in a nice contain Turkey position and should have stayed there.. had he done that I would never have attacked stp, if he had stayed in a Turkish blockade, but no...

First he matched all the way to Finland, not sure how he thought he would take anything that way? Then he spent 3 or 4 turns re-positioning to do the same to Germany, again, not sure how he thought Germany wouldn't see that coming and defend, so he got nothing there. All this time, of course, turkey is obviously eyeing the Russian SC, waiting for the best moment to eventually take him out. and later, of course, Turkey takes him out.
16 Apr 20 UTC by the way, Turkey, the way to solo as Turkey is to not get bogged down with the land war in Austria, defeat the Italian navy, then go for Gibraltar, clean up the Austria and Italian armies later. That whole Albania/Adriatic thing is a waste of time. MAO is the real prize, not Venice.
16 Apr 20 UTC Tugster, any advice for when you're Austria in a gunboat and a day 0 player spends the entire time as Italy attacking you? :)
16 Apr 20 UTC I’ve got some: pray
16 Apr 20 UTC Germany: thanks for all the post game feedback. Yes, I agree with both you and England. Good points all around, I will be much more patient moving forward. Also, thanks for keeping things light.

England: Appreciate the additional post game analysis. Lots to unpack there. Will be targeting Gibraltar next time for sure.
16 Apr 20 UTC @Austria it's almost certainly hopeless, but you could try sending them this article ;)

Key quote, @original Italy, if you're reading post-game chat, pay attention:
"I strongly urge against attacking Austria in Spring 1901; feigning an alliance with Austria is far, FAR more effective than the 1901 anti-Austrian attack strategies that are popular with beginners (moving both armies against Austria in Spring 1901). If you lure Austria out of position by allowing Austria to make attacks on Russia and Turkey, Austria won’t be in a position to punish you for your treachery. Furthermore, if you begin by attacking Austria from the south (in Greece), Turkey will not be able to acquire Serbia. Once you have control of Serbia, you can shut Turkey out of any profit that can come from the collapse of Austria. Shutting out Turkey is essential. Attacking Austria in Spring 1901 often results in a Turkey that is MORE powerful than Italy, which means a solo win for Italy is out of the question (at best, you’re now playing for a draw with Turkey; at worst, you’ve signed your own death warrant)."
16 Apr 20 UTC Winning as Austria in gunboat depends on Italy being nice, or on Turkey being stupid. You did pretty well considering that neither of those things were true.
16 Apr 20 UTC this is what I do as Austria, always, it's kind of metagaming, a bit.

1) i presume a friendly Italy, because I must have this in order to do well.
2) the instant Italy attacks me early, I throw EVERYTHING at him, giving away all of my SC to Turkey and Russia to punish Italy. I know it wont help me in that game, but the hope is that in /future/ games that person wont do it again!

The problem with the early Italian attack on Austria, is that many players as Austria try to hold and fight on both sides, this of course never works for Austria, but sometimes, Italy profits and does well, more often not, but a few successes for Italy trying this encourages Italian players to try it again in the future.

If EVERY Austria did as I do, suicide on Italy the moment they attack early, then Italians would stop doing it!

What I do as Italy is

contain Turkey for sure!
Harass France a little to get England and Germany to join in.
Try to get Greece, or maybe Marseilles.

But NEVER Trieste early, NEVER!

Trieste is a classic "Negative" SC, in that. it costs MORE to defend it than it gives you. I go +1 SC, but need THREE to hold it, net gain? -2

Taking Trieste early is a bad idea as Italy, always.
16 Apr 20 UTC in this game Italy was especially bad, he tried it once and failed, then even after losing Tunis to Turkey he did it again! so dumb. He let turkey grow to !8! SC, of course this is certainly signing your own death warrant as Italy.
16 Apr 20 UTC the post by Germany is very good advice for Italy as well.

You actually did pretty well all things considered Austria, Italian play was very poor.
16 Apr 20 UTC <3

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Bam47 (544 D)
Drawn. Bet: 15 D, won: 26 D
16 supply-centers, 15 units
Tugster (13048 D)
Drawn. Bet: 15 D, won: 26 D
8 supply-centers, 8 units
Pinecone333 (133 D)
Drawn. Bet: 15 D, won: 26 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
pyxxy (698 D)
Drawn. Bet: 15 D, won: 26 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
K-mil (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Valis2501 (2914 D (G))
Defeated. Bet: 15 D
TimKB (107 D)
Defeated. Bet: 15 D
Civil Disorders
Rast8 (150 D)Italy (Spring, 1910) with 1 centres.
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