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Finished: 11 PM Tue 25 Feb 20 UTC
Modern Please
1 day /phase
Pot: 100 D - Spring, 2008, Finished
Modern Diplomacy II, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
30 Jan 20 UTC Autumn, 2000: Here
30 Jan 20 UTC Autumn, 2000: here
30 Jan 20 UTC Spring, 2001: here
05 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2002: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
11 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2003: Alright guys, my draw vote is in. I thought I might be able to solo, but I think Egypt and Turkey’s alliance has pretty well stopped me. Happy to draw with the seven of you.
11 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2003: same
11 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2003: I concur
13 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2004: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
14 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2004: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
14 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2004: why are people doing this..just ready a hold order if there is nothing to be done, and let the game come to its conclusion.
14 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2004: You can rest assured that I, the new German, will be entering orders.
14 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2004: Germany went into civil disorder, seriously?
14 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2004: Yeah. Shocking to say the least...
16 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: Good luck everyone! It was a pleasure being slaughtered in Iberia :P
16 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: GG play again soon.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: I would like to propose a draw at this stage which includes all remaining players.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: I would agree.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: Including a 4 center Poland in a draw is a little ridiculous at this stage.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: What's ridiculous is a new guy who's done nothing to deserve a win now feels entitled to take credit for all of previous Germany's hard work that was the result of the close alliance with Poland.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: There is truth to that, this game has been going on for a long time and it was a hard graft for the remaining forces.
As Egypt I have no qualms about happenings in the northeast.
Whether it be a three or a four way draw, I am satisfied and so I cast my draw vote.
Until the agreement is reached my units are holding the line and waiting for the resolution.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: Of course, one may argue that the being the close ally to Germany when pushing for the solo win is reason enough to punish the Polish Prince.
However, if those who were Polish enemies up to this point feel that Poland deserves something out of the game, I am willing to accept that; being that Polish enemies were in extension my allies.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: My two cents worth: I took over Spain in cd with the intent to help the game reach its conclusion. I had no reasonable expectation to survive to a draw, although I wanted to see if that could be done. I had a good working relationship with both Germany and Egypt (although I was only active for a week) and was trying to remain alive long enough to see what happened in the east (Poland). When Germany went into cd, that all changed. He had no interest in dialogue and was happy to divide my centres with Egypt and accept a draw. For that reason, jumping in to claim the booty in an unearned draw, I would be hard-pressed to accept a draw at this point ... but I'm also eliminated. I agree with Poland on this matter.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: This game has drastically changed its nature when ol' Jerry went into CD. It is such a shame to see a player walk out on such a good position, especially when it took so much time and good play to get there.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: I think making decisions based on who went into CD and who is playing whom is both silly and metagaming.

I'm the German player now, and will be until the end of the game.

Just a cursory glance at the map is enough for any skilled player to know that it would be exceedingly difficult for Germany to solo at this point. Egypt and Turkey have built up a SOLID defense that I won't even attempt to breach and I could get 1 or 2 centers from the north, but that's it.

So I have no aims for a solo win. But that being said, if I'm at 24 and Poland is a 4, I don't see a reason to include them in the end game. I'm more than happy to support others into those centers and take not a single one more for myself. It's not SoS.

But IMO, a 5 way draw in a 10 player game is barely playing the game. It makes no sense to draw with anything more than 4 nations.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: So as a skilled player who noticed there was no point in playing further because Germany couldn't solo. Why did you even bother joining?
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: Does it really make that much difference whether you draw for 20 or 25 points?
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: I also think that joining a game with the intention of drawing is barely playing the game either. Poland has put the time in to make the game interesting. May I suggest that if you want the draw go for it or better still let's see how skilled you are. How close to the solo you can get? At least that way you will earn your points instead of tomb robbing.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: I never said there was no point in playing. Just that a solo is quite the longshot.

How many points I get isn't the point. Drawing with half the players still standing seems like the game is barely played.

Other than Poland not wanting to be eliminated or metagame reasons about me joining late, what reason is there to draw right now?
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: I am not sure why you keep bringing up meta gaming. What are you insinuating?
If you believe that , I believe the correct procedure is to report it to a moderator not throw about unfounded accusations to get your own way.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: I'm just stating that trying to force me to make a decision based on taking over a CD, is sort of metagaming, isn't it? Not something that I think is really a bannable offense, but certainly a poor sport move.

For good or for ill, I am the German player. Saying I should base my actions on what previous players did is, by definition, making decisions based on things other than this board, these pieces, this situation.

So that's all I'm referring to. I will make no decisions influenced by a previous player.

I've already discussed with my allies a 4 way draw, and I plan on sticking to that.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: By the same token I proposed a five way draw only as a sporting gesture towards Poland. No one is forcing a decision on any player. Let's just play on and see how it pans out.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: That's all I had intended to do.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: I would think that, if you're planning on a draw at this point, it should include Poland. Not including him at this point seems petty.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: I'm not planning to draw at this point. I'm planning to draw at a later point :P When all remaining players are in such positions of security, alliance, and power that they cannot be eliminated.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: So to summarize, you’re being petty about an undeserved extra 5 points. Cool. Glad you’re here bro.
17 Feb 20 UTC Autumn, 2004: All non-Germany players, I’m happy to kamikaze myself into Germany to help you wipe Germany out. I don’t care about points. I care about principles.
17 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2005: I don't care about points either, I'm also playing for principles.

The principle being, every player part of a final draw should deserve to be there. A player with less than half the centers of the next lowest SC nation doesn't deserve to be there.

I'm basing none of my decision on any meta reasons such as joining late. I'm just trying to play a healthy game.

I think a 4 or 5 player draw in a normal game is also a bad end (though sometimes it happens).
17 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2005: Whatever helps you sleep at night. Loose principles is what’s gotten America in its current mess.
17 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2005: Wow, I don't understand why you're being so personal and vicious.

I don't think it's outlandish when, in a game with nations that have 24, 14, 13, and 9 centers to include a 4 in the final draw.

This has nothing to do with you personally. Obviously, if I were in your shoes I'd fight to be part of the final draw, but at the end of the day I've been in plenty of draws I didn't deserve.

All I'm saying is that I don't want to include a nation in a final draw who doesn't deserve to be there. And simply by definition of your 4 centers, I don't think you belong there.

Nothing at all about you as a player, I'm just doing math.

No need to be vindictive or make personal attacks. It's just a game.
17 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2005: But don't you think it strange that you've taken over the leading power (that went into cd) and have come in deciding who should take part in a draw, a position you did not create? We're all different, but I think Poland and I see this situation the same. When I took over Spain it had two units, but my goal was to win. I certainly didn't expect to win or take part in a draw unless I created that opportunity. I'm new on webdiplomacy, and probably a boomer, but I would think that you took over this position to either go for the solo or accept a draw to end the game. If you choose draw, why not include Poland? To me, it's like arriving late at the dinner table and deciding who should eat and who should not. I arrive just before you but should wait my turn (or just not eat). Poland, however, has been here waiting patiently and is not allowed to eat.
17 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2005: I think that's why I see the situation differently. I'm not making choices based on when someone joined a game.

If this was the original German player would anyone object to them eliminating Poland? I think not.

I'm just doing the same. Just playing the position I have.

It's not my fault Poland finds themselves with 4 centers. I'm not out to get Poland in particular. I'm just not about to carry anyone over the finish line who doesn't deserve to be there.
17 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2005: kinda like the guy who doesn't deserve to take over Germany in the first place.
17 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2005: I mean...that's not really my fault. You're mad at the previous player, no need to take it out on me.

I haven't done anything other than try to play Diplomacy.
17 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2005: no, I'm not mad at the previous player at all.
17 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2005: As with all things, I'm going to just play the board I have in front of me.

If things change, my decisions will change.
17 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2005: I am more in line with Germany's position. When in a playable position, I play the game to its logical conclusion.
17 Feb 20 UTC Spring, 2005: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
24 Feb 20 UTC Good game and well played everyone.
24 Feb 20 UTC Good game, I have enjoyed playing this position.
24 Feb 20 UTC Enjoyed the game I have only played this map a few times and this was the best.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Germany
TemplarsBane (1494 D)
Drawn. Bet: 0 D, won: 25 D
22 supply-centers, 22 units
Turkey
groundhog (611 D)
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 25 D
16 supply-centers, 16 units
Egypt
DrugTito (0 D X)
Drawn. Bet: 0 D, won: 25 D
15 supply-centers, 15 units
Russia
Nodnyl (130 D (S))
Drawn. Bet: 0 D, won: 25 D
11 supply-centers, 10 units
Britain
Yaniv (1380 D (S))
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
France
quarryman (4746 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Italy
Cyanchy (159 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Poland
bobbytang (846 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Spain
Arminius10 (277 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Ukraine
GalahadIII (1939 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Civil Disorders
sideroxylon1 (657 D)Germany (Spring, 2004) with 22 centres.
mokkacreme (2232 D)Poland (Autumn, 2000) with 6 centres.
jonno0902 (100 D)Spain (Spring, 1994) with 3 centres.
KingDiplomat (99 D)Russia (Autumn, 1996) with 6 centres.
Tonga (95 D)Poland (Spring, 1999) with 7 centres.
Zenix52 (0 D X)Egypt (Spring, 1998) with 6 centres.
Protagoras (0 D X)France (Autumn, 1994) with 4 centres.
Yukino (0 D X)Britain (Spring, 1994) with 4 centres.
scuba_scones (100 D)Spain (Spring, 2002) with 2 centres.
heri120 (0 D X)Ukraine (Spring, 1994) with 4 centres.
Isozan (100 D)Spain (Spring, 1994) with 3 centres.
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