Finished: 02 PM Tue 06 Nov 18 UTC
Private Doplomacy II
2 days /phase
Pot: 70 D - Autumn, 1912, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
27 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1909: Avenge me, Russia!
28 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1909: I think we're in the same boat, Italy. Or rather, we both lack boats.
28 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1909: I already clicked the Ready Button. Does someone else have a Build?
28 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1910: Sorry, it was me.
29 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1910: I'm ready for Fall.
29 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1910: my orders are ready
31 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: I did my duty -- I clicked Ready despite not studying carefully.

No response. Not Ready again; hope to find time to check my moves.
31 Oct 18 UTC Autumn, 1910: Ready
31 Oct 18 UTC Spring, 1911: My orders are in and ready for Spring.
01 Nov 18 UTC Spring, 1911: Ditto. On you, yellow.
01 Nov 18 UTC Autumn, 1911: Check of the rules, please. I note that A(Rome) disbanded. Was it permitted to retreat to Tuscany?
01 Nov 18 UTC Autumn, 1911: It shouldn't have been. You can't retreat to a zone that was contested the prior turn, or to the place that the dislodging army comes from.
01 Nov 18 UTC Autumn, 1911: Thanks. "left vacant by a standoff." Yes, I missed this in the rules.
01 Nov 18 UTC Autumn, 1911: ... Sorry I'm so slow. The past few days I've been feeble with headaches, but still want to review my plays to ensure you guys have a challenge!
01 Nov 18 UTC Autumn, 1911: Had I been allowed to go to Tuscany, I sure would have :)
01 Nov 18 UTC Autumn, 1911: Had I been allowed to go to Tuscany, I sure would have :)
02 Nov 18 UTC Autumn, 1911: I'm ready for Autumn. I have you both right where I want you!
03 Nov 18 UTC Spring, 1912: Clicked Ready but you guys weren't Ready. So I clicked Unready. My forces are now too feeble to warrant much thought -- the Ship of Thinking Opportunity has sailed (and sunk) already. But maybe there's a bolt of lightning to go off later. :-)
03 Nov 18 UTC Spring, 1912: I've been ready and waiting for hours.
Do you guys need another ally? Scroll the map down and have Egypt/Arabia attack me from the South? :-)
03 Nov 18 UTC You're doing pretty well, even without us having the Mamluks on our side.
05 Nov 18 UTC At the rate this game is progressing, it's just going to evolve into a game of Axis and Allies.
05 Nov 18 UTC Don't blame me. I click Ready; and nothing happens.

I then click Not Ready just in case I get an inspiration in the next 16 hours of what Germany is thinking so desperately about.
05 Nov 18 UTC Alright, we'll call it a draw. </black knight Monty Python>
05 Nov 18 UTC Good game all.
05 Nov 18 UTC Good game. Thanks!
05 Nov 18 UTC I'm curious though. Were you guys going to attack Venice from PIE or TYR? TYR was the "sure way" in but seems like it would give Germany such a commanding position that France wouldn't have much chance.
05 Nov 18 UTC I think boredom won out. Germany had the solo for the taking.
05 Nov 18 UTC I was going to attack from PIE, but Germany and I hadn't really coordinated before we decided to call it a draw.

If Germany or I had been willing to turn on the other, it would have been more exciting at the end, but I didn't feel up to it by this point.
05 Nov 18 UTC Hey, i managed to end the game with land! Doesn't that mean italy and I get part of the draw too?

That was fun guys and interesting to watch you guys battle it out once I was gone.
05 Nov 18 UTC Sorry I turned against you, Austria. :-{ It wasn't my intention but it suddenly appeared you were going to collapse soon — better that I get your SCs than Germany.
05 Nov 18 UTC I find it a bit odd how stab averse these dope games tend to be.
05 Nov 18 UTC I've come to the conclusion that I'm far too honest for this game. I tend to suggest plans I actually think will work rather than scheming to burn people.
05 Nov 18 UTC Seems to me that people don't properly value "winning" the game. Getting a draw should not be a desirable outcome, being the lesser partner helping an ally to a solo is just as much a loss as being conquered. This means people over-value being good partners even when holding onto relationships is counterproductive. There's a reason the original game was called RealPolitik.
06 Nov 18 UTC I might be too much of a weenie for this game. Being underhanded and conniving is less fun for me than being a good ally. Once I felt I could trust Germany, I was with him till the end.

What can I say? I'm lonely.
06 Nov 18 UTC Perhaps we're too rational to see everything as a zero-sum game, even when it is :D
06 Nov 18 UTC What's this, a draw? I am disappointed. Germany could have won if only he was willing to turn on France. He just needed to, you know, Blitzkrieg through the Ardennes.
06 Nov 18 UTC It's not a question of being underhanded and conniving. That's not the point, you can certainly turn on an ally at the right time and be upfront about it.

The point is that you must always be self-interested. Players have 2 goals.
1. Get to 18 SCs
2. Make sure no one else gets to 18 SCs

If your plan and your alliances, don't work towards either of those goals.....you're not actually playing the game. It's the equivalent to playing Monopoly with the sole goal of making the most laps around the board.
06 Nov 18 UTC If France and Turkey allied at the end, we could hold him off. Then, after a while, Germany could have made me an offer. It seems like, if alliances kept shifting, the game might have continued for a long while.
06 Nov 18 UTC I agree with England, I just would rank those two goals in the opposite order. If this game went another 20 game years, would I have won? Maybe. Is it likely because someone would have just gotten bored and stopped checking? Probably. I'll take my draw over a tainted victory.
06 Nov 18 UTC Also, you guys have no idea how much blood sweat and tears France and I went through to form an alliance. Betraying that just isn't as fun as the old 1903 Spring stab.
06 Nov 18 UTC So...are we going again?
06 Nov 18 UTC To expand a little on my previous post, I might well be too much of a conciliator to play this game. However, I was the last to vote for a draw. I had suggested a draw to Germany, but I would have kept at it. As Germany said, he and I did have a lot of time and effort invested in our alliance. Stabbing him wouldn't have been that much fun for me. Then I'd have to face him over at the SDMB afterwards.

I probably could not have won. I was happy splitting the pot. I came out of the game with more points than I went in with. Good enough for me.

I'll play again if someone else starts it.
07 Nov 18 UTC I don't know if I should play again. As a rule I do not like games based on deception -- it is the strategy (independent of "diplomacy") that seemed fun to me.

And I'm afraid that, as so often, I came across as obnoxious asshole. :-(
07 Nov 18 UTC I'm playing some "Gunboat" games where there's no chat, and it is an interesting variation. You have to sort of figure out who will work with you based solely on how you're positioned and how they move. In once game, as France, I'm doing quite well, and have had a non-aggression pact thing going with Italy for several turns now. But now it looks like Italy has stopped playing, so I"m setting up to cut him apart.
07 Nov 18 UTC You didn't come across as an obnoxious asshole. I really tried to play up that you were, but that was all just part of the general ploy to get you to let your guard down. The game can be played as a tactical one, but it's a pretty bad tactical game. See the mess that we wound up with here, where we were stalemating as one side had twice as many units as the other.
07 Nov 18 UTC I learned that France allying with Germany is great at first, but then France once France takes out England, it gets bottlenecked in the Med. Trying to get units through PIE or WMed one at a time to get any kind of mass against Italy and Turkey is just painful.
10 Nov 18 UTC I could have told you that!
10 Nov 18 UTC Well, yeah, but why would I trust you?? You're the enemy!
10 Nov 18 UTC New game started: http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=231289
10 Nov 18 UTC Thanks, Horatius!

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Germany
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 23 D
13 supply-centers, 11 units
Turkey
Drone666 (130 D)
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 23 D
12 supply-centers, 12 units
France
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 23 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
England
Omniscient (140 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Italy
Horatius42 (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Austria
Oredigger77 (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Russia
Terminus Est (140 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Archive: Orders - Maps - Messages