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Finished: 07 PM Wed 08 Aug 18 UTC
Taft Was Eaten By Wolves
2 days /phase
Pot: 140 D - Spring, 1908, Finished
Classic, Public messaging only, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
31 Jul 18 UTC Spring, 1907: Not sure what’s going on. I did not request the pause
01 Aug 18 UTC Spring, 1907: I'm good to go. Let's do this thing.
02 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Great moves team west!

We will break this juggernaut yet.

England, I will be supporting Denmark into Sweden with Baltic Sea. I trust you will in turn be supporting Denmark into Sweden with Skag & Norway, while support-holding Norway with North Sea and Norweigan Sea?

I also encourage you to continue support holding me in Munich, France & England.

France, Italy, great job setting up the Med to keep two Italian fleets intact!
02 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Just an FYI: Planning on moving Spain to Portugal so if anyone needs to use Spain it is open. It seems unlikely, but more likely than someone needing Portugal.
02 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Makes sense Italy. I’m fine with that
03 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: I am on board with everything.
03 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: @russia I am out of the country right now haha. On my phone for now. Anything you want to see happen? What do you need from me this phase
03 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Moving Tyrolia to Piedmont and Trieste to Tyrolia would be great.
04 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: @Turkey where do you think I should build up. I think an army in Warsaw is the best. The problem is that we aren´t able to break through the stalement line in Germany.
04 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Russia - notice how turkey did not oblige and move tyrolia out. Trieste up into tyrolia.

It’s almost like he wants to keep units in a position to stab both Vienna and Budapest simultaneously...hmmm....
04 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Let's put it this way. Turkey needs another fleet to have any chance of breaking through to the West. If Turkey wants to be a good ally, they build that fleet in Smyrna to that it can't get to Sevastopol if there is a stab. If Turkey plans to remain allied to you, then there is no reason not to build a fleet Smyrna.

So Russia, you should interpret any build other than fleet Smyrna as an immediate declaration of war.
Turkey, given that this logic is out here, you must build a fleet Smyrna this turn or Russia should declare war.
04 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: *The previous message was to Russia. So the you in the first paragraph refers to Russia.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: The understanding is that I build another fleet to help with the stalemate in the Med, correct?
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Yes! I believe we still have Russia in a stalemate.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Let me know if you see a flaw.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: In fact we may even be able to make progress against Russia.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: I think we are close to a stalemate here. Sad news for me is if Turkey stabs Russia after seeing the inevitable, you might be tempted to stab me. Is there anything you can say in reassurance? We have been through a lot together and I would love to see us westerners cooperate till the game-end.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Still out unfortunately. I wish I had more time to analyze the map. Will be at the airport tomorrow in like 14 hours so can think more about it then.

@russia: yea the stalemate in Germany is real. And you can’t build in STP so Warsaw seems like the best option. I will evaluate my fleet opportunities tmmr and probably build f Smyrna tho I’m not actually see it’ll help me France has it pretty locked down in the south.

F/E are you guys happy with a 5 way draw ? If not what are you guys thinking. I’ll read up in the morn
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Turkey, I think there is a typo in your previous message. You seem to have written 5-way draw when you clearly meant 6-way draw. :D

Caution to F/E: If/when there is any indication that you will work to narrow this draw, then you will no longer have a stalemate line in the south here.
Turkey, in such a scenario, make full use of the opportunity that you are given.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Also, in the case that Turkey stabs Russia, they will still have at least 4 fleets. As such, I will maintain that the south has a need for a stalemate line and any attempts to cut me from the game will end that line.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: I won´t block a 6 way draw. If I look on the map I see a completely stalement line between the juggernaut and the western allianance, between France/Italy and Turkey and England/Germany and my humble self. I don´t see how the game should develop if there isn´t a stab from one side which however doesn´t makes sence for anybody. My draw vote is in. I wait for your answers.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: @Russia
If Turkey had more fleets, then our southern line technically requires one more fleet to be perfectly secure. However, I believe that England's last additional fleet will come in time to secure the line perfectly.
My draw vote is in.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: My draw vote is also in, and I am aligned with Italy on the question of any attempts to shrink the draw. (At least under the current configuration).

I AM okay with the Western Alliance pushing east if we get the upper hand as long as we can do so in a way that allows me a build.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: What an interesting game. For the life of me, I would never typically agree to a 6WD. But the dynamics of the board compel it. There's only one real stab to be made, and that's a Turkish stab of Russia. Technically, Russia could build in Sev and TRY to stab Turkey, but he would quickly lose that engagement. And as Italy accurately puts it, if anyone in the west makes a stab, the stalemate of the juggernaut collapses. I tried that earlier when I stabbed Germany, and it got us where we are now. And the margins of error then were nowhere near as slim (rather, nonexistent) as they are now. I'm in total agreement with Germany on this. I would be against shrinking the draw. If the game goes on, I do believe that Germany and I can slowly pick away at Russia, as he can't 100% lock down Norway. But that would be a pretty slow pace, while the rest of the board sits and watches.

My draw vote is in.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Hmm are italies units actually necessary for the stalemate? Hah. Damn a 6 way draw would certainly be a weird result after all that has happened.

If I don’t build a fleet, does that change at all?
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Not really. There are already 4 Turkish fleets. Against 2 French fleets and an English one (which will take 2 years to arrive) you still have the upper hand. If I throw my support behind you we then have 6 fleets and can easily get past this stalemate line.

There is no good way to make it safe to kill me without additional western fleets. I will surely throw the line before that point.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: The only way to make Italy killable would be a full Turkish retreat of Rome and Naples fleets to behind the Ionian line amd vacating Piedmont. Which is to say... not plausible at all.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: Anyway Turkey. Its your call. Since you are most likely the oustanding vote, my hustle to Russia would be that an immediate anti-Turkey build is a no-brainer.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: I mean you and italy better hope me and Russia don’t turn on each other because that would probably turn this 6 way draw into a 4 way eventually.
05 Aug 18 UTC Autumn, 1907: I am not the outstanding vote tho just checked
06 Aug 18 UTC Probably France, who seems to be hit and miss for press. Not a criticism, by the way. I've been the same at times as well.
06 Aug 18 UTC Because Turkey checked, it seems reasonable to say that they will accept a draw if everyone else does. If not then they took a risk in doing so.

Turkey, if France submitted a draw vote, would you agree to a 6 wd?
06 Aug 18 UTC I have submitted a draw vote FYI
06 Aug 18 UTC Now it´s all up to you, Turkey.
06 Aug 18 UTC England I will be support-holding Sweden with Baltic Sea. I would be okay if you sought to retake Norway from North Sea and eliminate the pesky Russian fleet.

Otherwise fortress Deutschland will be holding tight as usual.
06 Aug 18 UTC England I will be support-holding Sweden with Baltic Sea. I would be okay if you sought to retake Norway from North Sea and eliminate the pesky Russian fleet.

Otherwise fortress Deutschland will be holding tight as usual.
06 Aug 18 UTC donezo. GG Russia big fan
06 Aug 18 UTC WOW!

I am honestly kind of surprised! Turkey I thought for sure you would prolong things there. What caused you to decide to vote for the draw?
06 Aug 18 UTC maybe could have kept going but times about to get really busy for me and there was that big lull in the middle, kinda lost some steam.

Thanks for the great game guys!
06 Aug 18 UTC Haha my option there was to turn on Russia, Then I'd either get cut back to size and we could eliminate G/I maybe, or it would just be R and everyone vs me. Which would have been fine but no way I get 18 from Russian centers
06 Aug 18 UTC I fee somewhat responsible for the early conclusion to this game and for that I apologize. I had a job change right in the middle of this game and then webdip was blocked at work and I’m having a difficult time adjusting to playing exclusively from mobile.

I did enjoy the banter quite a bit though, so I’m still glad I played.
06 Aug 18 UTC No problem!

I am pleased I managed to get out of my unenviable situation alive. :P
06 Aug 18 UTC Just glad to see that I survived.

GG all.
06 Aug 18 UTC This was a thoroughly enjoyable game. Right from the beginning with Austria's gambit to play to an aggressive start (which got him killed in a way he didn't plan) down to a 6WD where a 2 SC Italy (with no home centers) was a crucial swing factor in the detente. From a hinted Western Triple in a discussion of Spaghetti Western movies, to stabs both forgiven and fought over in a constantly contested Scandinavia, this was very fun to play.

Seriously. You are all quality people, and I would play another game with you all again. If there's interest in getting together another game, be it Full and/or Public Press, I'm totally game.
07 Aug 18 UTC I would love to play with you guys all again. Had a great time :)

Just to clarify, I don't think anything was your fault France. Real life comes at you fast, you guys just stayed together too well! My time to attack Russia was a few turns ago as you all said :P

The fact that you guys called for it so much made me really not want to do it!
07 Aug 18 UTC @ Turkey: In thinking back on the game, I believe that was my problem. I was trying to get Russia to redirect and keep at least something on your border so it could open holes in the north. The trouble with that, is that when I (and everyone else) shone the spotlight on it for so long, there's no way you were going to do it. Plus Russia had basically doubled down on the Jugg, there was no way he was going to stop trusting you. I wonder if I (and everyone else) had shut up and not pointed things out, you might have actually stabbed Russia. Had you stabbed Russia, I think the German-English fight have have re-kindled. And Germany was in a fairly decent spot to get a quick 2 dot stab out of it if he were clever (and he certainly is, to be sure a tip of the cap to you FS!).
07 Aug 18 UTC I would love to play with you all again.
I should probably wait until after the World Cup, but after that, I should be open.
07 Aug 18 UTC Yeah, I think waiting until WC is over is a good idea. I kinda like devoting my energy to one game at a time. Especially with a tournament in play.
07 Aug 18 UTC I agree. To be honest I was really closing to stabbing Russia a time or two. It was partially the psychology of it that stopped my hand. Of course, once a certain time had passed it became silly for me to stab him. The only reason I would have now is just to gobble up a few SC's before the game ended. Also, I did really like working with Russia. There is something about a guy trusting you so much in diplomacy that makes you want to repay the trust !
07 Aug 18 UTC Just want to add to the lovefest! Well played on all counts. Even poor Austria added some interesting spice to the opening, even if it was to my detriment. :P

I decided pretty quick I was willing to risk an alliance with England given France's reticence to commit to anything in the hopes that a feigned triple + attack on Russia would turn into a stab on France later. I assumed (incorrectly as it turned out) that the spectre of a solid juggernaut and a #dead Austria would deter England from a stab.

Aaaaaafter that theory was put to rest, I figured I would throw my lot in with the eastern monsters until/if the west came to their senses, and surprisingly they did!

I really expected a stab on Russia, but I understand wanting to repay the loyalty Turkey, and dang Russia, were you ever loyal! Even to me, you (with one minor exception) were very honest forthright and for that I thank you.

France, I enjoyed our opening discussions, and I am happy you decided to change your mind. I wish I could have persuaded you not to stab me in the first place, but it ended up okay.

And Italy! Well done on surviving and making the draw! Really a big accomplishment.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

WarLegend (673 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 23 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
Theoneandonly (10992 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 23 D
8 supply-centers, 8 units
Yigg (2456 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 23 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
Tom Bombadil (4028 D (G))
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 23 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 23 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
celaph (409 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 23 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
ThePhil344 (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Civil Disorders
Pay Prawn (100 D)Austria (Spring, 1903) with 3 centres.
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