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Finished: 06 AM Tue 08 May 18 UTC
Featured FastGunboat
12 hours /phase
Pot: 1001 D - Autumn, 1915, Finished
Classic, No messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by CptMike (4389 D)
07 May 18 UTC Congrats CptMike!

2WL, why did you give up?
07 May 18 UTC I assume that Austria has a small child who they gave control of their units a number of moves this game. Otherwise they make very little sense.

Good game Germany. You took advantage of the opportunities given you.
07 May 18 UTC Maybe one of the most unexpected solo in the history of webDiplomacy...

I am confident that after years and years of game I would have finished by taking Par and Bre even if Captain Tomorrow defended this very well and doing so without making NAO disband was a challenge... But anyway I didn't deserve Vie and Bud.

My 2 cents : Austria was right to try to get rid of Italy. We would have finalized with a draw-3. He was not paid for the risks he took because he was holding a stalemate at that time.
07 May 18 UTC gg
07 May 18 UTC Which three? Austria could not eliminate France or Turkey without throwing to Germany.
07 May 18 UTC Au + De + Tk

I would not have reached Mar and Spa at time...
07 May 18 UTC At worst Au was supporting Fr for a D4
07 May 18 UTC I doubt Austria could have reached Tunis, Mar and Spa before you, while having to maintain the eastern stalemate at the same time. A 4wd was possible, but they should have waited for you to back off first. Attacking me when I was helping them keep Tyrolia was reckless.
07 May 18 UTC The solo was academic a few years ago. No point in playing it out - France can never hold their current position.

Turkey...why in the FUCK did you attack me in 1910? I have my northern line set, I'm on the verge of eliminating Italy, and you go and take a meaningless center that meant I had to disband, didn't have enough units to do either of those things. So you built a meaningless and useless army, what the hell did you need it for? By that point, you weren't going anywhere, you couldn't help anybody, yet you still chose to ruin the entire game with one stupid fucking move.
07 May 18 UTC I agree that Turkey's attack there made little sense. But your overreaction was way worse, you didn't have to lose Budapest.
07 May 18 UTC If Turkey wants to start a fight because he thinks we're playing PPSC, I'm more than happy to comply. However, when you have two players (myself and France) actively trying to stop a solo, one player (Italy, no offense) who is destined to be cut from that draw, and a fourth who is apparently either colluding with Germany or trying to throw the game, why the hell am I going to try and stop a solo when I have a player actively trying to stop me?
07 May 18 UTC So that you end up with a draw instead of losing?
07 May 18 UTC Using your logic, I should have thrown the game myself instead of trying to salvage the draw.
07 May 18 UTC You were a two center Italy who I was on the verge of eliminating from what was about to be a four way draw. There was no possible way you could "throw" anything.
07 May 18 UTC I could have taken Tunis when France left. That would have given the game to Germany with no need for Budapest.
07 May 18 UTC Tunis was an irrelevant center. Besides, if I've eliminated you, I can build the extra fleet necessary to support France in Mar, Spa, and Por.

Of course, that would require the ability to know what centers were needed for a solo and the tiniest bit of planning beyond the immediate turn. Hell, at a minimum you'd need to know there was actually a solo to stop. Jenga apparently lacks any of those abilities.
07 May 18 UTC I was definitely baffled

Good win cpt mike
07 May 18 UTC If I took Tunis, France had to disband, it wss not irrelevant. I got a build and there was no way you could eliminate me in time to stop Germany.
07 May 18 UTC @Xorxes: it is hard to discuss what is achievable or not technically withotu playing this. If you look at the map in Autumn 1909 when Austria attacked France, Italy disbanded Tun and offered it to France, which gave France one more center. If Austria had went out, Italy was out. When we see where Germany is in 2015, I doubt that Germany could have reached Spa and Mar before Austria (supported by France).

All in all : when Austria attacked Italy, I didn't say to myself : I get the solo. I just wondered how to achieve a draw-3 instead of a draw-5. When Turkey took Greece I said to myself : well. Maybe it will not be Austria in the solo but I have my some chances to get the solo. Of course, I was totally surprised by Austrian "suicide" against Turkey. I missed the opportunity at that time (a shame) but I didn't expect these moves.

But that's just the situation seen from Germany...
07 May 18 UTC [If Austria had gone on ... not had went out... ]
07 May 18 UTC [Maybe it will not be Austria in the draw... not in the solo... ]
07 May 18 UTC I agree, Austria attacking me was not what lost the game. Austria giving away Budapest is what did it. I did have an opportunity to throw the game at one point, that's a separate issue.
07 May 18 UTC First of all 2ndWhiteLine I would suggest not accusing others of misreading the board if you have an inability to do so. The solo was not academic a few years ago. Now France did not make the correct moves in Spring of 15 but if he did, and you did not throw away Rumania we would have had a stalemate. I assume, as you have amassed quite a few points in this game that you know what a stalemate is. You just seem to be unaware of the possibilities in the west. Take heart though, France did not see it either. It is a fairly unusual one. But again, if you are ignorant of the lines to prevent a solo I would suggest not accusing others of doing so as it makes you look like an ass.
07 May 18 UTC Second of all 2ndWhiteLine, I was not attacking you. I was preventing you from becoming large enough to eliminate me from a draw. There is a difference. I thought that you would know the difference. I did not assume in a game that costs more than ten points to join that you would lack the ability to distinguish between the two.

If you had simply disbanded your unit in Ionian Sea instead of Vienna we would not be having this conversation right now for a number of reasons, most importantly because we would have drew the game several days ago. But you decided that since you lost a supply center, that you did not need by the way, to throw the game to Germany. And then you have the audacity of accusing me of ruining the game. That is a bold claim. I will give you that. But it is not accurate.

If we define ruining the game as throwing supply centers to someone else so they can get a solo then you ruined the game. Alternately, if you define ruining the game as mindlessly attacking someone who poses no threat instead of the person who does pose a threat, then, well, it is again you who ruined the game.
07 May 18 UTC Spring :
(Par + Bur ) S ( Bre > Pic )
Gas > Bre
Nao > Mao

Autumn :
( Mar + Par ) S Bur
Bre S Pic
MAO supported by who has to...
07 May 18 UTC But Jengamaster, what did you plan when you attacked Austria ?
You wanted to push him out of the draw, correct ?
-> a draw-3 : FR + DE + TK.
07 May 18 UTC MAO would be supported by Western Med that Fall and then by Western Med and North Africa the next Spring, and by then it is locked up. It would have been a 50/50 that fall because would you move three at MAO or two units at Brest. But it was a decent shot. And a coin flip is certainly better that giving it all away.
07 May 18 UTC I never imagined that Austria would be eliminated from any draw. Austria's units were needed to keep you out of Vienna and Budapest. Frankly, I was quite content with a five person draw. It is not glamorous, but it is better that being cut out of a draw or having someone else solo.

Unrelated, this yellow is a chore to read.
07 May 18 UTC Yes, it is.
07 May 18 UTC Pink's much better. Shouldn't have eliminated me so soon.
07 May 18 UTC Actually it would have only been a 50/50 if you had moved a different way. With the moves that you chose the stalemate would have been secured.
07 May 18 UTC I agree. French plan was not bad either. His idea was to build at Paris after I disband NAO...
07 May 18 UTC [ at least: it is what I read in my cristal ball... ]
07 May 18 UTC If you wanted a draw with Austria there was no reason why to go to Gre. The only motivation for that was to eliminate him. So his reaction is quite understable.
07 May 18 UTC ...understandable...
07 May 18 UTC Not really. Even if Turkey wanted to eliminate Austria, that's not a good reason to throw a game. The only time throwing is justified is when you really are at risk of being eliminated, which was not the case for Austria even after losing Greece. If Turkey had kept attacking ndcthere was a real risk, then he had plenty of time to throw.
07 May 18 UTC Well, his reaction was to try to throw the game. So I do not know if understandable is how I would describe it. I mean, I understand how a temper tantrum works so I guess it is understandable using that argument.

But let us look act the evidence. Austria has already showed that eliminating people from a draw is something he is fine with. That is a totally reasonable position. I have done it myself. Now let us assume that I just stay turtled up in my four SCs. So Austria having taken Rome and Naples is at ten units to my four.

Bear in mind that until I moved into Greece, Austria had still not marked draw. So, Austria is now at ten units, I am still at four and you, CptMike, have determined that a draw is the only possible outcome. So you decide why not whittle down the numbers and you retreat from Galicia and Ukraine. Hell maybe you even give up Warsaw to Austria. So now there is a three person draw featuring France, Austria, and you. That does not seem ideal to me. Taking Greece was a defensive not an offensive maneuver.
07 May 18 UTC And that's what I would have done after Austria has taken Italy. Yes.
07 May 18 UTC FYI : http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=222316
10 May 18 UTC FYI : http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=222520

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Germany
CptMike (4389 D)
Won. Bet: 143 D, won: 1001 D
18 supply-centers, 16 units
France
Survived. Bet: 143 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
Austria
2ndWhiteLine (3375 D (B))
Survived. Bet: 143 D
4 supply-centers, 5 units
Turkey
jengamaster (2083 D)
Survived. Bet: 143 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
Italy
xorxes (30127 D)
Survived. Bet: 143 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
England
Claesar (4422 D Mod)
Defeated. Bet: 143 D
Russia
swordsman3003 (13189 D (G))
Defeated. Bet: 143 D
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