Finished: 13 Mar 18 UTC
We Wuz Kangz
1 days, 12 hours /phase (slow)
Pot: 707 D - Autumn, 1913, Finished
No in-game messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
Game drawn
12 Mar 18 UTC GG all. Sorry Turkey for almost letting my greed ruin a 4 way stalemate/draw. And Sorry France for ousting you. You very nearly got your revenge!

And ofc GG Germany for very nearly soloing!
12 Mar 18 UTC Yeah, I had three shots but the odds were against me. Good guessing on your part!
12 Mar 18 UTC Gg
12 Mar 18 UTC GGs.

Won't lie, this was a really frustrating game. I have no idea why France supported himself out of Belgium in A02, why Russia felt it was so necessary to keep F BAR in A02 that he took Norway and made me blow up a unit that could have been used against Germany, or why France tried to backdoor me when he needed me as a buffer against Germany in 1905. It's like y'all wanted Germany to solo! You damn near got your wish too :p

One day I'll figure out how to succeed consistently with England in gunboat. Until then...
12 Mar 18 UTC I didn't try to backdoor you, idiot, I moved north to nao to defend your north, all you had to do was to HOLD north sea, I was going to Clyde and nao to take over Norwegian, not attack you. For that matter, you ignored scan and devoted excessive resources towards France early on. You played like shit and deserved to lose, so stop whining like a baby.
12 Mar 18 UTC France wasn't backdooring you though, he was trying to help you prevent me from getting into NAO/Clyde. I may be wrong, but that's how I read it.
12 Mar 18 UTC Cross post :)
12 Mar 18 UTC And England reacted in totally irrationally and destroyed himself in the process. Rule of thumb: when choosing a course of action deciding between known enemy and possibly enemy, trust that the possible enemy might be a friend. Germany was an obvious known enemy, look what I ordered the turn after, dumb ass.
12 Mar 18 UTC And I supported myself out of Belgium, because it was obvious Germany was going to take it, and with England throwing three fleets at Channel I had no idea that England was schizophrenic enough that he would suddenly support Belgium to hold after playing irrationally for several terms
12 Mar 18 UTC And finally, towards the end the repeated attacks on Picardy were the moves of a total douchebag, so England if you'd like to improve your play, a) try playing rationally and b) don't be a douchebag
12 Mar 18 UTC I didn't ask you for advice France.
And since you apparently can't see why I would feel the need to worry about a French move to the Channel in S01, and seriously believe I should have dived into Scandinavia after seeing that opening, I'm not sure I care to hear more advice from you, either. You're apparently convinced you can do no wrong, so there's not much point in talking to you about this.
12 Mar 18 UTC And I don't need your permission to give you advice, but poor players never listen to advice anyways, nor take responsibility for their own play, as you are clearly not doing so now, so I don't know hwy I bother. Why don't you go crawl under whatever rock you crawled out from under. :)
12 Mar 18 UTC now I am talking to Germany and Italy, the competent players (not England):

about the end game:

I needed to first slow down Germany to allow time for Italy and Turkey to stabilize Vienna and Rumania, but then I needed to help Germany get to 17 faster, in order to avoid what Italy tried to do at the end. I should not have gone to MAO in spring 1910, as I did too good of a job at slowing Germany down, which tempted Italy into whittling down the draw. if I had gotten Germany to 17 SC just a little bit faster, Italy would not have tried what he tried. It was a delicate balance, slowing him down, just enough, then speeding him up, and I misplayed the end slightly, and paid for it.

But this is my own mistake, for which, I take full responsibility. I knew I was stuck in a tough balancing spot between a German solo and a smaller draw.
12 Mar 18 UTC I listen to plenty of good advice. "Play rationally and don't be a douchebag" as a condescending putdown isn't good advice. If you want to start giving good advice, I'm all ears, as my England game is in sore need of help.
Why don't you start by explaining how I was supposed to interpret the move to the Channel?
12 Mar 18 UTC Okay, some real, calm advice.

You moved to Channel also. Lots and lots of people, as England and/or France, move to the channel. It's a normal thing and does not indicate lifelong enemies. Just like a bounce in Burgundy does not mean lifetime French/German enemies, or a bounce in Black for Russia/Turkey.

My second move was not to the channel, but yours was, and to Irish, and triple forces on Chanel, etc. Excessive and obsessive reaction to a mild spring 1901 bounce in channel, which should have received a big fat yawn. You even once gave Channel TWO supports for total defense of power three when I had only two fleets next to it. A wasted move and clear signal to everyone that you were obsessed with France.

As England, to win, the most preferred path is to take over Scan.
However as France, the preferred path is to stab England, then encircle Germany and Scan.

So, as England, in my humble opinion, you cannot go blindly for Scan and ignore France. So, it is best to neutralize France with the minimum possible forces deployed, which is normally two fleets, not three. If you commit three against France, you will, with certainty, lose the fight for Scan, and then you are done for.

So that means, two units MAX against France, you do not need to win, you just need to not lose. The other two must fight in the north and win the 5th SC in Scan, then you have three in scan and you can grow to 6 or 7, all the way to stp, or into Germany depending on the rest of the map. THEN, you can send extra units into France later when the time is right.

And finally, using that fleet in channel to constantly hit Picardy while Germany is overrunning your home island, is in fact, a total douche-bag move. Sorry, if this offends you, but it's true.
12 Mar 18 UTC I don't often see France move to the Channel in gunboat. England more often, France not so much. It was surprising. I can see what you mean about it not being a guarantor of conflict though.
What would you have done in A01 there? The convoy has to happen to get the army in play, so it seemed like there wasn't an option open besides moving to Channel. Am I missing something?
What you're saying about using no more than two units against France makes sense, but I didn't have a chance against Russia's three units on Norway, and on the only turn where I used three units to secure the Channel (S02), I didn't have an alternative that would protect Channel and play around MAO -> NAO. I didn't actually commit all three fleets to you, just because I ordered a superfluous support hold with North Sea a couple of times -- that fleet was holding anyway. I could have supported you to Belgium on one turn though that I should have done (S03). But in general, I didn't commit three units to you, I just used a third fleet on one turn to make sure my two units would be enough. Then I lost Norway because I was down 3 to 2 in Scandinavia, and that was basically game, as I can't advance into Scandinavia anymore without leaving myself open to you.

These are the two biggest decision points I had and I'm not seeing where mistakes were made:
+ Moving to Channel in S01. Perhaps, in the abstract, this is wrong; but in context of this game, with the bounce there, surely moving there in this game was not wrong.
+ Moving to Channel in A01. I was locked into this move because I had to convoy Norway. I see where it caused us some unnecessary conflict, and probably baited F StP(nc) -- should I just have held? This dance is hard for me to get my head around, because as you say, France's best path is to attack England, and if you're going to commit only 2 units on defense (which seems right to me), you have to make aggressive positioning plays to achieve that defense. You probably need IRI/ENG right?

What should I have done differently in your view?
12 Mar 18 UTC also starting in 1903, I supported myself and supported YOU as well, for three turns in a row. Meanwhile, Germany was conquering Warsaw and Moscow, and you failed to adapt in any way at all, you just sat there and did nothing, while Germany was becoming vastly more powerful than France.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Germany
xorxes (18675 D)
Drawn. Bet: 101 D, won: 236 D
17 supply-centers, 17 units
Italy
Hamp (340 D)
Drawn. Bet: 101 D, won: 236 D
12 supply-centers, 11 units
Turkey
josemurc (23006 D)
Drawn. Bet: 101 D, won: 236 D
5 supply-centers, 5 units
England
President Eden (2427 D)
Defeated. Bet: 101 D
France
Tugster (6967 D)
Defeated. Bet: 101 D
Austria
JaimeR (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 101 D
Russia
chluke (6135 D (G))
Defeated. Bet: 101 D
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