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Finished: 02 Mar 18 UTC
Gunboat Godrick
1 days /phase (normal)
Pot: 707 D - Autumn, 1917, Finished
No in-game messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
Game won by swordsman3003 (12192 D (G))
01 Mar 18 UTC The full timeline went like this, as confirmed by the mods after the game:

- Stalemate lines were set, with France and Turkey writing stalemate orders. 2 years passed.
- No draw. France asked for forced draw investigation, was told no.
- 3 years now with no SC change. Austria wrote mods for forced draw, was refused.
- France figured out that someone must not have been voting draw, reasoned correctly that it must have been Turkey, even though Turkey had never made any moves against French positions. This realization was based on mods refusal to draw.
- France decided to throw game to Germany, to prevent Turkey killing him, of which there was no proof. This was based partly on the mods refusal to draw, and partly on a Turkish move on Moscow, which makes no sense to me, but whatever.
- Had the mods drawn the game after three years with no SC change, there would not have been a chance for France to throw the game.
- France claims that Turkey should have anticipated the move and bounced on Spain, but likely France would have interpreted this as "proof" that Turkey was trying to kill him.

Clearly: Conversation with mod/delay in draw => influenced and changed French moves => solo win by Germany.

And therefore

=> Communications outside of the game in a gunboat game affected the outcome of the game <=

And Swordsman collects his points in silence, with no comment. Too bad he cannot have a little honor as a mod and recognize how highly irregular the ending of this game was.
02 Mar 18 UTC Ok, i will give my view of this game.
At first i have to say i am surprised how much talking was going on in this game while it was running. i always thought that a gunboat is played in silence, but it seems i still have to learn a lot about this game (and most likely about some players).
But, back to this special game. When a mod did contact me it was autumn 1915. Germany just had left Moscow and i got asked "What is your plan...You are one of the remaining players to have not yet drawn...". Well, i told my plan and after that i sent another mail telling the mod that it was a mistake to tell me of other "players" because that gave away information. Call me a stickler for detail but even without knowing what was going on in the other talks i think when i got the first message the game had already left the gunboat area. I can only speculate what Germany got told, but easy to image that he got the same information straight or implicit. Back to the game i was surprised to see the message i got because it never came to my mind that the game was in a stalled mode and that mods were needed to finish the game. And to say it clear: even if i would have voted for Draw Germany should have every right to try to surprise me with an attack, bait me (or to say it better bait France) and finally just left Warsaw and Moscow in a way to get ride of France without any risk for Turkey and Austria. Yes, these things need time so what ? Do you wanne cut these thing out of the game only because some players cant handle pressure or are so afraid of loosing that they call the mods multiple times instead of just playing the game ? On my mind that is just ridiculous. Some of the players said there is a rule: "We will only force games to draw if they have been at a stalemate for at least two years with no SC's changing hands and no possible sign of a breakthrough. If alerted to such a scenario; we will email the player(s) holding the game up and ask them how they plan to break through." Without going into details i think it is common sense which should rule and this game was for sure not stalled. Looking at the game i see a possible stalemate line begining in autumn 1913. That was the start with france having 2 units. Prior to that things were different. Yes it is a difference if France has 2 or 3 SC. So in my mind there were only exactly 2 years until spring 1915 in which the line was stale. The game in this time was not as Germany tried to surprise me with an attack and changed his troops at the stalemateline. You can see that as stale, i dont do. In Spring 1916 Germany was leaving Moscow which is cleary showing a change of the situation. So at most it is exactly 2 years of stalemate. I dont get it how a player can tell "I also repeatedly(!) contacted mods". If anything he should get an alert the second time he does this and if he repeats it again some kind of punishment. He was clearly doing a mix of putting pressure on mods, putting pressure on other players with the help of the mods and fishing for information. Going to Moscow was clearly my mistake, but it was also influenced by the mods. I am pretty sure i would not have done this without talking with the mod. That i got the message after Germany had left Moscow and there was no reason to talk to me at all is simply bad decision making by the mods. From what i can read at least mods were not giving away information to France, but that is only right if it is not common practice to rule such games as fast as possible to Draw. If it is common practice then you dont need to wonder about France behaviour, because it is simply clearly his best strategy and should have big upside.
02 Mar 18 UTC +1 Turkey for not sounded like a douche like Austria
02 Mar 18 UTC by the way Turkey, I had forgotten to mention: your fall 1909 move to support me into your SC of Rumania was very clever, very well done, excellent way of sending me the message that you were ready to stop Germany on the main lines. not many players signal this clearly, so I sent every unit I had straight to the German front. Had this not happened, Germany would have soloed outright, and would not have had to steal it later.
02 Mar 18 UTC Tugster, there is no need for personal insults.

I think you played fine and anything I wrote was simply from a game review standpoint, with no personal insult intended towards anyone. I agree that my point about a supported bounce is a stretch -- it was simply something I was watching for, however unlikely. My main point is that I figured out in my mind that Turkey was trying to eliminate me, so I threw. It turns out I was right, although I suppose it's possible that I was just accidentally right, and that my logic about Turkey's move attempt to Mos was not perfect (although I can't think of any other reason for it than to make center count room to eliminate me), if you find fault in it. My second point, is what else could the mods do? They have to tell me they got my emails, but they can't tell me "why" they won't force draw to enforce a commonly known 2 year stalemate rule.)

Naked is one of the best gunboat players on this site, so I also do not intend any personal insult to him. Naked's point about me emailing more than once is taken, but I honestly just thought mods were too busy to force the draw and were forgetting me, so I re-emailed under concern of time pressure for the phases to turn.

I do think Naked may have a point about mods revealing that he was "one of" the only players not voting draw, and I could see how that could potential influence him to go for Moscow (however, nothing would explain his not voting draw earlier, unless he was indeed interested in eliminating me). However, that mod slip of the tongue is almost certainly an accidental revelation with no ill intent, in my view.

Ultimately, Naked is a high rated gunboat player in part because he does narrow draws. That strategy goes with risks, and this time it backfired. I fought like hell all game. I never want to lose and I only threw after coming to the conclusion that the game would be drawn without me if I didn't throw.
02 Mar 18 UTC @France I think it is quite clear that with an any decent German player you are not part of the Draw. There was nothing you can do about it.
02 Mar 18 UTC Naked, I don't understand what you mean by that last comment?? Do you mean that I should have just accepted being eliminated and not thrown to the solo? Or do you mean that a better player than Swordsman would have more quickly eliminated me for a 3 way draw, instead of soloing like Swordsman did??
02 Mar 18 UTC My comment is a reply to your saying "I never want to lose and I only threw after coming to the conclusion that the game would be drawn without me if I didn't throw."

if that conclusion was the reason for you throwing the game you could at least done it much faster, because your defeat was written on the wall since around 8 years. At the end there was nothing you could do other than prey for a really bad or lazy germany or both austria and turkey player extremly generous or calling the mods.
02 Mar 18 UTC Ok, got your point now. Not my style to give up early though.
02 Mar 18 UTC but you ultimately did something that honorable players never do, you gave the game to the guy that defeated you, you rewarded him for attacking you. Fight to the death against the guy that was killing you, Germany, don't screw the others than never laid a finger on you.
02 Mar 18 UTC Anyways, this game was totally compromised in the end, should be expunged from the records, but Swordsman apparently prefers to keep his points.
02 Mar 18 UTC Once England crumbled (actually, even earlier, once England decided to start giving up Nth Sea and then his homeland to Germany instead of backing off of me), with no one in the east putting any pressure whatsoever on Germany, and on top of that with Italy attacking me to further aid Germany's growth while also allowing Turkey to advance towards Italy himself, I had no chance to stop Germany (as Naked rightly pointed out).

My only hope (in "my" mind) was Turkey not going for my elimination and accepting a 4way, instead of risking the German solo by going for the 3way. I threw up lots of "support threats" for Germany, and I intentionally let Germany deep into solo potential territory in my corner, to try to show Turkey I was ready to throw to Germany if Turkey in any way flinched to eliminate me. He flinched at Mos, immediately after preventing the 1915 4way draw, so I threw.
02 Mar 18 UTC Again, a true expert at losing, giving the game to your worst enemy. Well done.
02 Mar 18 UTC Yeah sorry about that missed phase France to let Turkey in. Was super bummed about that nmr
02 Mar 18 UTC @France your play in 1908 was really bad and when i saw your moves i thought to myself that France is screaming to get eliminated. in fact your gameplay is very typical even for advanced players on this site, who have knowledge about important things in this game, like for example a stalemateline, but fail to make good use of it because they have to look ahead and draw the right conclusions.
what is the situation in 1908 in the game ? there are 2 player ahead of everybody else. germany and turkey. germany has 10 sc, turkey 9. germany is better coordinated than turkey but has one big defender on his side of the stalemateline, turkey has coordination problems but faces only weak splited enemies. Ok, Italy also has some defense potential. All in all, i think it is simply a race for a solo beteen germany and turkey. i dont mean that germany or turkey race for a sure solo, just for the chance to fight for it. france has a good defence position, but on the long run it is simply dead to germany without other things influencing the situation. Infact i would suspect that germany is in the race for the solo ahead, which makes the situation really awful for France because you dont want to be on the same side of the stalemateline with the guy whinning the race for the solo. to repeat this very important part: you dont want to be on the same side of the stalemateline with the guy whinning the race for the solo. Why ? because nobody can or will help you defending your area. you position is simply not defendable. so if France recognizes this situation what can he do ? there are simply two ideas. first the guy on your side of the stalemateline has to be the second in the race. this makes sure that he cannot get ride of you because he needs you to defend the solo from the other player. and the second idea ? get your share on the other side of the stalemateline so that you will be involved in a Draw. part of this can be even feeding germany to make him a much faster solo thread than he normaly would be to force turkey to gift (italian) SC to you because at this time he needs you to defend some crucial SC or at least not interfere the defense against Germany. What did France in the game ? He used precious resources to make sure that turkey is second in the race (eliminating the fleet in north africa), while doing nothing to get his share of italy (some part on the other side of the stalemateline). the alternatives ?
France could get a much better defense position against Germany by moving to the Channel, which would even allowed him to put some pressure to Germany and so delaying his fall on the stalemateline by a lot, hoping that Turkey is faster.
France could support Turkey into Tunis, trying to get ride of Italy as fast as possible so that Turkey is the thread and he defends the thread easily with the help of Germany.
France could go with his fleets for Tunis himself and later on for other parts of Italy. Hoping that he gets a big enough share and that Germany is fast enough so that he can defend with Turkey against Germany on the right side of the stalemateline.
If France would be able to pull through one of the ideas he would not be relying on some preying like in the game. He could simply take his part of the Draw.
02 Mar 18 UTC Italy: Some constructive criticism that might improve your play:

1) If you want your Austrian ally to be a more effective fighting force, evacuate Venice. There were many times you could have safely moved away, yet you stayed there, forcing Austria to cover Trieste, reducing Austria's effectiveness in holding back Turkey and Russia.

2) Attacking France in the earlier parts of the game is almost always a bad idea as Italy. It always creates a strong Turkey and either a strong Germany or a England, in this case, Germany and Turkey.

3) An Italian attack on France can usually only be successful much later in the game, after Turkey is crippled or contained. Also, an Italian attack on France, if you want to do well as Italy, has to be one that will actually work, one that will yield results, of Marseilles, Spain and Portugal, so that Italy can control MAO, which gives you a vital position on the opposite side of the normal 17-17 line. A failed attack on France, or a partial defeat of France, helps pretty much everyone on the map, except France and Italy.. It's a death move.

4) Never, EVER, give up Ionian Sea. Ionian Sea is absolutely life or death for Italy. You should never leave it undefended, never. You just walked away from Ionian Sea, a near certain death move for Italy.
11 Mar 18 UTC lol. i just looked at the comments again and my first comment to the game was cleared. i guess the mods cant even take the comment "the game was a joke and not decided in a gunboat way".
11 Mar 18 UTC I had a very long and detailed conversation with the mods, and swordsman, who is normally talkative, has said nothing, and takes his points in shame, in a gunboat game, that was not decided as gunboat. but the mods don't care, and he doesn't care. And there you have it. Because he obviously doesn't have the honor to do the right thing, prefers to steal gunboat points in a non gunboat way. I guess if points mean everything to you, so goes it.
11 Mar 18 UTC normally i give a gg, which also was cleared. so i think i will change it to:

congratulation swordsman3003 to your fabulous win.
11 Mar 18 UTC Fabulous /stolen/ win...

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

swordsman3003 (12192 D (G))
Won. Bet: 101 D, won: 707 D
18 supply-centers, 15 units
naked (4844 D)
Survived. Bet: 101 D
10 supply-centers, 9 units
Tugster (7360 D)
Survived. Bet: 101 D
5 supply-centers, 5 units
chluke (7435 D (G))
Survived. Bet: 101 D
1 supply-centers, 1 units
ag7433 (2048 D (S))
Defeated. Bet: 101 D
Defeated. Bet: 101 D
czechveck (1534 D)
Defeated. Bet: 101 D
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