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Finished: 24 Mar 18 UTC
Featured Put Up & Shut Up
1 days, 12 hours /phase (slow)
Pot: 3507 D - Autumn, 1917, Finished
No in-game messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
Game won by josemurc (23881 D)
22 Mar 18 UTC Good game, England. I think I made a mistake toward the end by not moving a unit up near Munich. That might have kept you from the solo. However, even without the mistake, with France throwing you the game, it was probably going to be tough for the rest of us to stop you before you got to 18.

I might have had a chance if Italy hadn't decided I was a threat to solo and attacked me in the midgame.
22 Mar 18 UTC I thought I was a goner in the early game. Fighting both Russia and Turkey. Luckily, I made some good tactical guesses. Then, Swordsman (Russia) made a blunder by stabbing Turkey. That opened the door for me to make an early game run.
22 Mar 18 UTC "with France throwing you the game, it was probably going to be tough for the rest of us to stop you before you got to 18".

i never throwed the game. i tried my best to stay in a possible DRAW. and yes you did an awful mistake, but even then the game as a possible DRAW, but only with me. I did my best. Italy and Austria just gave up..
22 Mar 18 UTC My stab on Turkey didn't work out for me, but I don't consider it a blunder (to me, that's like a misorder or something that could never have worked out). I had no viable expansion potential, I was completely shut out. Russia very often is wiped out in the end-game grind, so I took my chances. I thought I could induce Austria to ally me or Italy to attack Austria.
22 Mar 18 UTC Breaks my heart that I had a chance to go jugg with Swordsman and it fell through :`(

I may have to take the blame on that failure. I was 100% going jugg all the way, and was ready to help Russia get Bud and Vie, and then grow together from there. I think my mistake was not putting Russia into Serbia or somehow signaling him better that I was 100% with him. I had always thought that Serbia goes to Turkey in the jugg, but in this case support for Russia to Ser may have saved our alliance and likely gotten us a 3 way with England.
22 Mar 18 UTC Makes sense. Let's just say I was very happy when you did it because I was about to die. Turkey was clearly in Russia's camp.

France, maybe you don't see it that way. With different moves, you could have kept England from taking Tunis. You kept attacking Italy. Once England got to 15, it was obvious to me he was trying to solo. Yet even at the end, you destroyed F Tunis in the disbands and let him walk into Tunis by ordering F Tyn H. I made a mistake not anticipating a really good move by England about Munich. I didn't give England all my home territory and throw all remaining units in the opposite direction against one of the other powers.
22 Mar 18 UTC Russia, I had to decide whether to help you or Turkey when you stabbed. I figured you and Italy would potentially ally and I'd be stuck between you. Therefore, I decided to focus on Russia first because I didn't think Italy would stab with the Turk still viable in the Med. I was hoping Italy would help me advance further against Turkey, but he decided to let us standoff in the east, which was probably wise on his part.
22 Mar 18 UTC "With different moves, you could have kept England from taking Tunis."

It is not about me saving Tunis. For me going East it is about getting some part of Italy and hoping to Draw the game. Tunis was no part of any win condition at this time, simply because you had secured Munich.

"Once England got to 15, it was obvious to me he was trying to solo."

Well, then i can tell you that you were around 6 SC to late with this valuation.

"Yet even at the end, you destroyed F Tunis in the disbands and let him walk into Tunis by ordering F Tyn H"

Are you serious? The position was totally lost when i stopped moving. My comment regarding saving the game is after String 1916, when it was clear you would loose Munich. If England takes it and simply makes the moves he did in the game, which was highly likely there is a possibity to get a stalemate line on autumn 1916. But this comes with a price. i was demanding Rom.

"I didn't give England all my home territory and throw all remaining units in the opposite direction against one of the other powers."

Yes, you simply only did throw the game.
22 Mar 18 UTC I sort of understand what naked is getting at; I myself would have probably just prayed that Tunis was enough to get me into the draw, even if the stalemate line was 16-18 and not 17-17. However, he has a point.

Prior to the Spring 1916 moves, it was not at all apparent that Tunis was necessary to secure a draw vs. England and that the stalemate line could have been formed at Italy and Ionian Sea. England made a very good guesses in Spring 1916 and Austria made some bad guesses by moving Prussia to Livonia instead of Silesia and Piedmont to Tuscany, so the situation changed completely after that turn.
22 Mar 18 UTC France, I don’t appreciate being told I “gave up” because I misread one turn — when, had you made a reasonable set of moves on that same turn and denied England access to WMS, we would have made the draw happen anyway.

Your play was exceptionally servile to England. I don’t fault you for picking fights with me, particularly the last one, but your play throughout the game benefited no one but your greatest enemy. Before blaming everyone else for the outcome that you put into motion, maybe take a look in the mirror.
22 Mar 18 UTC "France, I don’t appreciate being told I “gave up” because I misread one turn"

that is a fair point.

"when, had you made a reasonable set of moves on that same turn and denied England access to WMS, we would have made the draw happen anyway."

Well, so just to repeat for you the point i already made. At this time Tunis was not needed for a Draw. And you wanne tell me that if i had defended Tunis versus England i would be part of the Draw ? Only with Tunis... ?
I can tell you that if Tunis was needed for the Draw and i only had Tunis i would be dead. Simply because England can easily withdraw his troops later on and make my elimination pretty easy.

"Your play...in the mirror."

I dont blame you for your analysis. i think you just dont know it better.
22 Mar 18 UTC By the start of 1916 you had two fleets left. If Tunis wasn’t necessary for the draw, you were stone cold dead, period. You had no chance to get any of my home centers after your disbands. Your only line to success was to hope Tunis was needed and stall England to prevent the solo. You didn’t act in accordance with that line.

If you’re not going to do any additional reflection then that’s on you, but have the decency not to flood the postgame with sour grapes if you’re not going to own up to your share of the fault for this outcome.
23 Mar 18 UTC If France try to stop/delay me in his country territory, he wins one or two years FOR THE OTHER POWERS, and so, the game could have been a draw...Eng-Aust-Turk and perhaps Italy, but France would had been destroyed, by me or by his "allies" to get a low draw. So, he tried to get Rome and be a key player for the final draw, I see...
23 Mar 18 UTC finally someone got the point. just to prevent this situation which would most likely be my dead i send a tank to the east with the idea of getting ride of my stupid tank so that i could rebuild a second fleet and finally fight England. the other idea of it was simply making Austria big and getting ride of Italy. if Austria can fight for the solo before England has his breakthrough i can defend with England and Germany together. only problem was the weak Munich hich would give Austria a real chance for a solo, but well you cant everything and my choices were limited.
23 Mar 18 UTC No one has taken issue with your push into my territory starting in 1914. If you're not even going to respond to what is actually being said then there's nothing constructive to be done from here. Your play was unquestionably riddled with errors in judgment that cost you greatly, and your response has been to blame other people for the outcome instead of looking inward. Really disappointing.
23 Mar 18 UTC i really dont think my lack of skill and over all bad attitute should be a disappointment for you. just live your live in joy and leave me in my misery.
23 Mar 18 UTC France threw the game to England. There's really no other rational explanation for the way it was played.

That said, it happens. It was our job to recognize what France was doing and still stop England from getting the draw.
23 Mar 18 UTC For the record, I'm up for a rematch.
24 Mar 18 UTC new game: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=219462
good luck for all!
24 Mar 18 UTC Way to take me below 3000 points :/

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

England
josemurc (23881 D)
Won. Bet: 501 D, won: 3507 D
18 supply-centers, 17 units
Austria
eturnage (367 D (B))
Survived. Bet: 501 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
Turkey
chluke (6135 D (G))
Survived. Bet: 501 D
5 supply-centers, 5 units
Italy
President Eden (2427 D)
Survived. Bet: 501 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
France
naked (4344 D)
Survived. Bet: 501 D
0 supply-centers, 1 units
Germany
2ndWhiteLine (2405 D (B))
Defeated. Bet: 501 D
Russia
swordsman3003 (10160 D (G))
Defeated. Bet: 501 D
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