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Finished: 09 PM Sat 04 Nov 17 UTC
Private #fuckghugboat
2 days /phase
Pot: 35 D - Spring, 1910, Finished
Classic, Public messaging only, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
30 Oct 17 UTC Spring, 1909: Meme ain't thinking solo. Meme just wants to make sure nothing bad happens.
30 Oct 17 UTC Spring, 1909: Moving to tyrolia was a solo try move
30 Oct 17 UTC Spring, 1909: It only worked because you moved everything towards Iberia...
30 Oct 17 UTC Spring, 1909: My moves are defensive. The aggressive move would have been supporting Naples to TyS
30 Oct 17 UTC Spring, 1909: Well... Had I not played aggressive moves, you would now be in TyS, Tus, Pie & Ion, and you were encouraging me to move on Goldie. I think I have as much of a right to be annoyed at you as you have to be annoyed at me, especially considering you can cover everything I can attack with Tyo anyway.

@Gold - are you good to support Lvn-StP this phase so we can draw this thing?
30 Oct 17 UTC Spring, 1909: You really don't want to let Tim be a part of the draw?
30 Oct 17 UTC Spring, 1909: He is the reason why this 3-way happened
30 Oct 17 UTC Spring, 1909: No, Uclabb is the reason why this 3(?)-way happened. Tim was pushing for my elimination from the very beginning and the only reason one of him/uclabb didn't solo was because uclabb stabbed him.
30 Oct 17 UTC Spring, 1909: Meme, I don’t think I was pushing for your elimination.

I agree that it’s a solo push from Turkey, though. If you’d been moving as you had in the past, he’d have certain control of Iberia.
30 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Just saw I was the only retreat, so I readied up.
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Explain the moves ATC.
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: What moves? I‘m not going to disband, and I’m pretty sure I was invited in to StP?
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: How my moves were my best path to a solo
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Do you mean your moves? I think it’s enough to point out that you’d claimed that you’d give Capt all the space he needed to two way, and then entered moves against him instead. Given capt’s past moves, your moves had a reasonable expectation of success, and it’s disingenous to claim otherwise.

If you were preemptively defending, then you’d have asked for bounces. You have the upper hand in fleet power.

There’s no need to go into more detail. The other players don’t need me to read your moves for them. Nor do I think it’s worth my time- I live or die on the whim of the western powers- what they think of your moves (and whether or not to include me in the draw) is up to them.
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Oops, messages crossed.
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Meme, I'd like it if I could let Tim live, but you hold the veto power here, as per our prior arrangement
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: I did write all that press helping you and Gold get on the same page. Keeping me in the draw would be a good way to acknowledge that.
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: That's such obvious bullshit there was never a real solo threat (that's why ATC was so mad at me in the first place)- I appreciate that you are trying to scrape for your draw though ATC.

@gold- I will be ordering Moscow supports Livonia to St. Petersburg and moving Silesia to Munich. Please don't take the meme solo threat lightly. With him in Tyrolia it's not clear that we could hold Berlin from him in the long term, so we need to actively move to stop him while we still have a numbers advantage. I would suggest going for one of Belgium and Holland here, as if you get that guess right he should be sufficiently slowed that he has to draw.
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: I appreciate the vigil, uclabb, but there's no way in hell meme can solo here. You have the fleet advantage in the south by a large margin. I have fleet parity in the north
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: An alternative that I think would be better is France and England don’t fight each other.

He obviously can’t solo- what centres over the line does he take? You can currently have tunis back, and you can lock him out of everything else forever. He does not have the firepower.
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Also- this situation is one *you* created. You gave him tunis and asked him to attack Gold (which, noteabley, he largely refrained from).

I’m not sure how you’re going to claim you thought the board would look at this point, but crying solo after you’ve set the board up seems unconvincing.
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: I think that's mostly true, but it's not obvious. My fleets aren't that useful. I'm very slow to make any progress in the south, and in fact can be stalemated with just one more fleet. If meme found a way to take a center off of you and get one more southern build, he would have me stalemated. If Tyrolia can slow me down enough it's vaguely possible. Definitely not likely, not trying to be an alarmist, but I really think it would be a mistake for you to not take St. Petersburg here as you don't have many disbands to give. E.g. if meme knew you weren't making active moves he would take North Sea from you this turn, at which point the solo threat would be very real.
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: I'm not crying solo- I'm just saying don't submit all holds or something. That's all. And take my support to St. Petersburg. And he can hold Tunis easily if MAO comes south.
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: He can take North Sea. I'll retreat to Belgium or Holland and take London as a result
31 Oct 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: If he blocks Holland, I take Kiel. I mean, there's so many redundant safeguards here
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Uclabb, Capt can only hold tunis easily if you let him.
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: And you’d only let him if you’re planning to force England and France to fight. Which you’d only do if you’re planning to take advantage of that to solo. This isn’t rocket science.

It doesn’t make sense for Capt and Gold to fight here. There’s no real solo threat, unless you create one.
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: I’m sure I don’t need to say this, but the support to St. Petersburg is irrlevevant from an anti solo perspective. The unit that comes off is Livonia- which isn’t relevant to stopping Turkey (or the sillier scenario of a solo attempt by France).

Worrying about anyone’s solo isn’t a reason to take that support. And uclabb suggesting that *is* is a strong tell- he’s too good a player to be making fallacious tactical claims by mistake.

He is trying to get us all to fight. Let’s not fight.
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Meme, just waiting on you at this point.
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Gold, my preference would be that you take out ATC. It's nothing personal, but a 3-way draw is better than a 4-way draw and I think we should be playing for our best results here.
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Right, but the question is more what will you do if he doesn’t?

You’ve complained that Gold doesn’t keep his word, and that you’d like to see him keep it. And now you’re asking him to break his word to me. Seems like the better long term play would be to see if he’ll keep his word.
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Tim, I don't believe I have much of a choice here. He can tap Norway and there's nothing I can do about that
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Totally. He can prevent you sticking to your word if he wants.
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: This is the single worst thing about diplomacy. Blatant and baldly manipulative language about "what does this say about you as a man"and "what about your integrity". We are playing a game where we try to get out best result. I promise you ATC would eliminate you in the opposite situation gold
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: And it is necessary to take it. St Petes can't be held from a hostile French unit, which means at some point ATC has to help cap'n if he wants any chance to survive. A good role of thumb is don't let potentially hostile units be a lynchpin to your safety
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: And just to make one more point, I really could have missed this turn, if work was really busy today I might have Please don't get us to an escalation situation where we are trying on me sitting orders. I don't log on to the site any more except for this game, and I've already accidentally missed the turn twice
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: *relying on me submitting orders
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: If you’re worried about missed turns, you’re welcome to draw.
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Soon enough
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Another solution is for you to return all my centres to me. Up to you.
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: I'll hit draw after builds. Good game all.
01 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: How was I getting Tunis again?
02 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: With better moves than those.
02 Nov 17 UTC Autumn, 1909: Thanks for the game everyone.

I’m really disappointed in this game- safe, draw ensuring play from one of the best players on the site, and bickering over who is going to throw the game. I’d like to think we’re all better players than that.

Anyway, good job to Capt and Gold for working together sensibly at the end.
02 Nov 17 UTC Sorry Tim. Had I been in more of a position of power, things would've been more interesting.
02 Nov 17 UTC I don’t think you needed to kill me. But it’s a reasonable move, as it is strictly better for your score.

I would have kept me alive-I think it’s better to stick to your word wherever you can.
02 Nov 17 UTC That's why I had to ensure you weren't in a position of power, Gold :)

I think I had a chance to solo had I entered a bolder orderset in A08, but it would more likely have resulted in a win for uc.
02 Nov 17 UTC I think it would've just delayed your death for a year, as meme would've just tapped Norway and allowed uclabb to take StP, once Tunis was locked up
02 Nov 17 UTC We’ll never know :)
02 Nov 17 UTC Yeah meme I think you had real solo chances if you pushed in 1908. I was actively trying to make that true of course

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

uclabb (589 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 12 D
16 supply-centers, 16 units
captainmeme (1589 D Mod)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 12 D
11 supply-centers, 11 units
goldfinger0303 (3155 D Mod)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 12 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
Tom Bombadil (4028 D (G))
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
2ndWhiteLine (3375 D (B))
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
VashtaNeurotic (2394 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
A_Tin_Can (2244 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
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