Finished: 04 Jun 17 UTC
Classic (Octopuses Welcome)
2 days /phase (slow)
Pot: 707 D - Autumn, 1908, Finished
Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
Game won by nmpolo (2095 D)
05 Jun 17 UTC What a disgrace of a result. And what bullshit Germany won this in the West. I had an impenetrable stalemate line set up. Italy, Russia and Austria didn't defend at all, that's where the solo lies. Completely idiocy that Italy gave Venice to Germany.

And I'm sorry nmpolo, it's always nice to solo, congrats with that, but please don't take credit where it's not due. I blame ogion for the loss, this game was a sure draw, Turkey stopped attacking you last year already. I can't believe you just throw the game like this, it's not how I know you from past games.
05 Jun 17 UTC What was I supposed to do? Move to Vienna and tyrolia and watch turkey and Russia walk into Budapest and Trieste behind my back? They'd already agreed to work together to set the draw in 1906 and then immediately stabbed me, and then refused to talk further. This is what you dingbats really don't understand. Turkey gave zero indication that he was going to work with me instead of try to eliminate me. His last message was that he wanted to expand. He stopped attacking me because I beat them both back. What was turkey going to do, attack me with his one army? That's absurd. That one army meant I couldn't leave any centers open behind me. So, tell me France and Russia , just how was I supposed to defend my border with Germany AND my border with Turkey with two or three or even four units?

Getting the draw would have been easy, had Turkey ever indicate
05 Jun 17 UTC That he was willing to back off as everyone implored him to do. He showed up to move but gave total silence in press. Sorry, but as I said, I don't work to enforce draws I am getting cut out of.
05 Jun 17 UTC 1906: Russia and Turkey agree to work on a draw, and then attack Greeec
1907: Russia and Turkey agree to work on the draw, and attack Serbia
After that: they go silent.

Bullshit anyone would just trust that. They had many many turns to respond to my offers to work together.
05 Jun 17 UTC Mate you need a break from WebDip - seriously you are unhinged
05 Jun 17 UTC Seriously France Russia, lets walk through what it would have looked like. Say I rushed to defend and didn't respond to Russian and Turkish aggression. First, Russo was insisting I hand over Budapest. So, I am immediately down to two centers, Trieste and vienna, with Russians an Turkish units in galicia, Budapest and Serbia. I, what, support myself?galicia supports Vienna while Serbia and Budapest take Trieste, in down to one center. Then I am in the unlikely spot of holding Vienna solely at German whim. But no one has any need to include me in a draw so I am eliminated. So, that's a dumb idea, France

Or start later, autumn 1907, I slide up Albania into Trieste into Vienna to defend, but we still have the Italy Venice problem that Turkey has built another army, has a fleet in Ionian and is giving zero indication that he will back off, so I have to defend while that army moves into Greece and the fleet into Trieste. Germany is in Vaneica because Apulia needs to defend Naples From those Turkish units, since no one knows what they will do. of course dutifully defend while Turkey takes Serbia, since Trieste can be cut? Russia and Turkey have three armies and I apparently am require to fend off Germany while being attacked? Fine, so I lose Serbia, and replay the above one more time. Hell, even if I set the stalemate line, Germany pulls back, I am eliminated and again I've worked to get a draw for my enemies.

So, France, do tell, what are the genius moves that lets me defend against turkey and Germany ata the same time without being eliminated?
05 Jun 17 UTC Well obviously come 1908 you didn't need to defend anymore given Turkeys holds.. Way I see it come 1908 you are the aggressor. I see Russia moving Rum/Sev against Germany and Turkey holding.

What I also see is Italy just giving Germany Venice with two armies next to it (that is up there with the weirdest shit I've seen in my 6 years on this site) and then in autumn you not defending Vie and Trie after Turkey just all held and Russia moved against Germany.

As the experienced player Ogion, its your job to get the newbies (Turkey/Italy) to fall in line for the draw, not aggravate the situation.. This is really on you (and Italy), Ven, Tri and Vie are impossible to grab for Germany if defended - as are Por, Spa and Mar on my side. This is a draw if I ever saw one.
05 Jun 17 UTC I have to side with Ogion in this one. If Turkey and Russia want to play for a draw, then they can't repeatedly stab. In the same position, I'd feel like they wanted the draw, but wanted to thin me out of it first, and wouldn't trust them either. So I blame Turkey the most in this one. If you're going for a draw where Austria is going to be kept in it, there is no point in attacking him to grab an extra SC - the only way to interpret that is you are trying to cut him out of it - it's a greedy move thinking only of the single turn and not the long term.
05 Jun 17 UTC What England said. Austria and I threw the game because we'd been (at least I'd been) putting in quite a lot of effort for several in-game years to make Russia and Turkey stop making nonsensical aggressive moves. Faced with, what, six? phases of consecutive stabs, I surmised that there wouldn't be a draw anyway, and I was wasting my breath on this game.
05 Jun 17 UTC Also, bear in mind France you can't bring someone on board who is absolutely refusing to respond to ANY press to anyone.
05 Jun 17 UTC "Austria and I threw the game..." There is never a reason to fully throw a game in WTA. It means the game is over and you have fully lost, even hinging on with 1 sc is better, because then you still haven't lost. There is absolutely no excuse for you Italy to give Venice away like that. You could have also taken out Austria with Turkey and Russia and swiftly set up the stalemate line - beginning of 1906 for example. The year I start setting up defenses on my side, after it becomes clear England will threaten throw.

You two complain about Turkish and Russian stabs, have you looked at Austria 1901-04, he stabs ALL his neighbors in quick succession. Then Russia defends and holds in spring 1906 defending against Germany and then we see Austria attacking him again. Maybe come spring 1907 Austria has some reason to complain a bit, but for the 6 (!) years before, it's him who is attacking and stabbing everyone around him, completely ignoring the German's offensive.
05 Jun 17 UTC Well, I was trying to solo. If I hadn't messed up my orders I'd have had a good shot too. Ironic that you complain that one of the countries I moved against was Germany (which Russia complained about bitterly, by the way)

And the point was that Italy couldn't have eliminated me quickly enough

The point you fail to understand, France, Turkey, and Russia, is that you have to recognize when a country is critical to the draw before you try to eliminate them. Try and fail and you throw the draw. Russia and Turkey tried to do that and it failed

I offered to work with Russia and Turkey EVERY SINGLE TURN from 1906 on, and never got a positive response. Apparently I should have just ordered all holds and let Turkey and Tussia eliminate me because that would have been convenient for France.

That's utterly unrealistic
05 Jun 17 UTC Gotta love how Russia says I'm unhinged. This is the guy who flipped his shit when I didn't move to Galicia a couple of year back... even though he never once asked that I do so and then didn't get Turkey on board as he promised but instead just sent expletive laden press. Again, tell me France, if you say to a player "we need to work together to get the drawl and the answer is silence on the one part and "You're a count!" On the other. Tell me France, would you take that as "yeah, absolutely, we will stop trying to kill you"? Don't be daft
05 Jun 17 UTC Look, you guys can keep on stabbing necessary powers and you'll keep being surprised when people don't help you get the draw. I've done my TAing already this year.
05 Jun 17 UTC Right, throwing a game, making yourself loose, great lesson! You could have played it like me. Minimize yourself, but in a crucial position. Even one sc in Vienna for you could have meant a drawing position. So why not give Turkey the benefit of the doubt after he did all holds this spring? I see a Turk all holds, after which someone throws the game in a tantrum - completely ridiculous. The worst of all is Italy though, not even in danger of anything and still throwing.
05 Jun 17 UTC What a joke France. If everyone had gotten into draw position and Austria was down to one SC in Vienna, then Turkey and Russia would have worked out something with Germany to allow them to knock out Austria and thin the field in a draw once it was clear to Germany he could not win. There is no point playing for draw for the rest of the board if you're not going to be part of it, and Turkey made it clear he didn't want Austria to be part of any end draw.
05 Jun 17 UTC Let me ask you this France. Why should I have to "give Turkey the benefit of the doubt" when he had already proven his interest in stabbing? Why not ask Turkey while he didn't just respond to everyone's requests to help out? Six turns went by with us imploring some kind of statement that was met by silence. Do you really think that is reasonable play? But sure, it is my fault for trying to make my situation safe. I asked every damn turn for a commitment to the draw. Never got it
05 Jun 17 UTC This is Turkey's last press to me. He clearly wanted to ounces ah me for earlier stabs. Is this the kind of statement, combined with the attacks, that' you'd interpret as friendly? All holds does nothing but protect gains

"Autumn, 1906: Expand or die, unfortunately. I'm not going to sit and wait for Germany to take the rest of you without putting up a fight myself. And you positioned yourself for stabs with your moves right out the gate."
05 Jun 17 UTC Man, this game (or this website, at least), is toxic.
05 Jun 17 UTC Germany - I sympathise - good game well played. nuff said. Wusti out

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Germany
nmpolo (2095 D)
Won. Bet: 101 D, won: 707 D
18 supply-centers, 14 units
Turkey
Drewdafish (100 D)
Survived. Bet: 101 D
5 supply-centers, 5 units
France
MrcsAurelius (2999 D (B))
Survived. Bet: 101 D
3 supply-centers, 3 units
Italy
Clownie (295 D)
Survived. Bet: 101 D
3 supply-centers, 4 units
Austria
Ogion (3823 D)
Survived. Bet: 101 D
3 supply-centers, 4 units
England
slypups (1291 D)
Survived. Bet: 101 D
1 supply-centers, 1 units
Russia
Wusti (681 D)
Survived. Bet: 101 D
1 supply-centers, 1 units
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