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Finished: 06 PM Fri 16 Dec 16 UTC
Private World Cup Group B Full Press 1
1 days, 12 hours /phase
Pot: 35 D - Autumn, 1910, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Unranked
1 excused missed turn
Game won by vixol (1186 D (B))
19 Oct 16 UTC Spring, 1902: I feel like were all about to learn who the biggest liars are in this game. What a crazy mess of messages to try to decipher. Fun times whatever happens.
19 Oct 16 UTC Spring, 1902: From what I can tell, everyone wants to be Turkey's friend. Pretty sure that means I'm about to get mobbed up on. Fun times indeed.
19 Oct 16 UTC Spring, 1902: Hows that Eastern Triple working out for yall.
02 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1903: Those French and English sure do love readying up. Hell, sometimes without even talking to anyone else.
02 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1903: I haven't readied, just saved moves
02 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1903: I love you
04 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1903: I will tap Norwegian for you.
04 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1903: And Bud
10 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1904: Well I guess I wont be needing that fleet in NAO anymore. England is gonna be able to survive on their own without my help or France now.
10 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1904: Hes a big boy now
16 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1905: Moderator: (ghug): Game paused by request. Likely for only a day.
17 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1905: Moderator: (ghug): Game unpaused.
27 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Thanks for the game Fellows in England, Germany and Turkey
27 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Indeed, good game guys.
27 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: gg EGT
28 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Gg. Sorry France. I got Drunk and was quite rude.
28 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Good game, England, Turkey, and, yes, Germany, too.
28 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: gg all. Fun to have 3 of us go out at once.
28 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: Agreed. No sour grapes it was challenging and interesting
28 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: No sour grapes, but the style you have when drunk is not likeable.
28 Nov 16 UTC Autumn, 1907: my ex agrees. :/
16 Dec 16 UTC WTF...
16 Dec 16 UTC I swore Italy was HR... man. Thats wild
16 Dec 16 UTC Congrats, France!
16 Dec 16 UTC Gg and unexpected upset.
16 Dec 16 UTC Gg France. Congratulations to team Sweden for being the first team in the finals!
16 Dec 16 UTC Congrats to France for a well-played game. GG all.
16 Dec 16 UTC Wow, I didn't expect that. Thanks for a fun game, I hope there are no bad feelings.
16 Dec 16 UTC Only towards Austria for throwing the game :)
16 Dec 16 UTC Hey, I did a correct guess about Baltic too, bouncing in Kie, a little cred at least :)
16 Dec 16 UTC "Only towards Austria for throwing the game." If you're looking for an explanation, Italy, check out the closest mirror.
16 Dec 16 UTC I don't think I ever threw a game, I think it's childish. Hopefully you thought this would improve your team's chances somehow, and you didn't do it just to revenge a stab.
16 Dec 16 UTC I regret much of my early play. I got greedy
16 Dec 16 UTC I figured based on your metagame reasoning that you would never let me be in a draw. I was right. And I used your same reasoning in deciding to throw. You stabbed me because you thought your team couldn't pass mine with if we were both in a draw. By ensuring that you weren't in a draw without me, I kept your team from passing mine.

I tried to talk France into a draw, but apparently HR told him that my teammate was likely to make the draw in PP, meaning his team would be eliminated if he drew. Incentive gone.

Ironically, if you'd gone for the 3WD, xorxes, your team would have had a very good 3rd place finish and strong chance of advancing. Now, 4th place awaits.

You think my throw was childish? I think your stab was stupid. Not a good idea to stab an ally capable of throwing a solo.
16 Dec 16 UTC Btw, I'm Christian, a Swedish ftf-player who nowadays live in Finland. I used to play on the old Ken Lowe judges but this webdip & vdip is something I found about a year ago I think. It's kind of fun, but I do think the virtual gaming is another game than ftf. One difference is that it's so easy to play online that a lot of not so good or not so dedicated players surface, whereas a gaming convention costs some effort (and money) to attend so the level tends to be higher. In this game the level was high, I mean in the net dip in general.
16 Dec 16 UTC maddotter: It wasn't up to me to let you be in the final draw or not, it was up to France. If France retreated his units and gave me enough space for me to eliminate you, of course I would have, as I needed that in order to advance, but if he kept armies in Scandinavia, I wouldn't be able to eliminate you because that would make you throw it to France, and he also had an incentive to stay around waiting for the throw. I didn't expect you would throw it before you had to, since you still had a chance to draw if you could keep France as a threat until 1919. I guess we were reading the situation differently. I was afraid Russia might throw it since his team is almost assured of advancing even now (as long as PP ends in a draw), but I wasn't expecting you to throw it so prematurely.
16 Dec 16 UTC xorxes: It was up to both you and France. If either one of you wants me in the draw, it happens. I could tell you weren't interested in that because you weren't talking about doing things that would prevent me from throwing the game, namely backing your units off and letting me build (you never even responded to my request that you not take Vie or Bud). Your intentions were borne out by your moves. And once France starts backing his units off, my leverage goes away, so the critical decision point was this turn.

Again, tho, I think this result was largely determined once you stabbed me. Especially once I got the second build in 1907, you weren't going to be able to eliminate me without France getting a good solo opportunity. I even gifted you a dot to speed things up, and you still couldn't do it. Now I think France risked the result by not taking Mun immediately, but he succeeded with some bold risks in 1909 to make up for it. All he had to do then was not fall for my draw proposal, and he didn't.

So you traded a strong 3rd place finish for the hope that France would turn down 1st place and settle for a weak 3rd place. It would have been absurd for him not to accept my offer.
16 Dec 16 UTC What strong 3rd place??? France's third place would have been much stronger than mine (or yours), why do you call it weak? France's was 2wd+4wd+GB3wd (+anything from PP, if any). Your third is merely 4wd (+anything from PP), mine would have been the weakest of all: GB3wd, equivalent in points to a press 6wd, (+anythng from PP). So I had the least incentive of the three of us to settle for a third place, France had the highest.

But of course France would accept your offer to throw, who wouldn't accept a a solo? What you needed to do is keep France waiting for you to throw, with his units just close enough so I can't risk trying to eliminate you. It's much easier to throw, of course, but whats the merit in that?

We should have had this discussion before you decided to throw, BTW. Why did you keep telling me you were *not* throwing, given that nobody could do anything to stop you anyway?
16 Dec 16 UTC Sorry, my third place would have been this 3wd+GB3wd+PP, weaker than France's but stronger than yours. *You* had the least incentive to settle for third place, which is also why I thought you would fight the draw rather than give up and throw.
16 Dec 16 UTC But I never thought a 3wd was an option. Once my solo shot disappeared I would have backed off and Italy would have every reason to eliminate Russia and Austria, and that could be done pretty risk free.
16 Dec 16 UTC Had you stuck with the original AFI plan, a 3WD would have netted you about 150 pts. Your team is going to get about 150 points from PP. So your team would have ended up with around 375 points from 2.5 draws. Comparisons to the 3rd place that my team is going to get or that vixol's team would have had under a 2WD is irrelevant, since we're looking at your options. 375 very well might be good enough to advance, and, had you not stabbed me, a 3WD with AFI was a near certain result. The alternative was the hope I wouldn't throw or that France wouldn't accept. But if I have reason to think that you'll eliminate me no matter what, why wouldn't I throw?

I never told you wouldn't throw, btw. Not only that, I was the one holding the gun. You needed to convince me not to pull the trigger. If you didn't want me to throw, you should have been doing everything you could to convince me it was a bad idea. Instead you kept giving me lots of reasons to do it.
16 Dec 16 UTC Also, I told you very, very clearly before you stabbed that I would throw the solo to France if you did stab. I wasn't kidding.
16 Dec 16 UTC The point is I would not want to eliminate you no matter what. I would want to eliminate you *only if France let me*, but you had good arguments to keep France close so I wouldn't be able to eliminate you. And notice that France convoyed to Norway and stayed in Silesia, both things I told him would prevent me from eliminating you.

If you needed me to convince you, you should have been more clear about that. I thought you were taking Moscow. I spent most of my diplomacy with Russia last turn because I thought he was the higher danger of throwing. I expected you to want to throw at some point, I just didn't see why you would do it now, even before seeing if I took Bud and/or Rum.

"I told you very, very clearly before you stabbed that I would throw the solo to France if you did stab. I wasn't kidding." That's a silly reason to throw though. Situations evolve, sticking to your threats just for the sake of it even when it's not in your best interest is not very reasonable. But I know some players are driven by emotion more than by reason, so my bad for thinking you were more reasonable.

Anyway, group B is now complete. Congratulations teams Sweden and Balkans, and hopefully Chicago's third place is good enough to advance.
16 Dec 16 UTC I'm torn between mild concern over the faint possibility of a PP Solo and somehow another team doing better than 416.5 points for best third in another group; and the satisfication I derive from the likelihood that I won't have to put with either of AI in the finals. Italy waited way too long to stab; and Austria reacted in the dumbest way possible by continuing to try to eliminate me when I was the one person he was never going to outscore.
16 Dec 16 UTC HR, the PP game is done, you're through to the finals, and you may have to face maddotter again, but not me :)
16 Dec 16 UTC I'm glad deliberately delaying all those retreat phases paid off then :p
16 Dec 16 UTC We briefly considered throwing the PP game to Cali Mercs just to spite team Chicago for their throw here, but we decided we're better than that. :)
16 Dec 16 UTC Congtatulations anyway vixol. I'm glad you got through :)
16 Dec 16 UTC Hahaha. I'm pretty confident that 416.5 points would've been enough for Best Third; and also that 269 probably won't be anyway :p
17 Dec 16 UTC xorxes: I didn't throw merely because I said I would. I threw because I thought it gave my team the best expected result. I thought it highly likely that a 2WD would happen if I didn't do it. France had every incentive to go for a 2WD over a 3WD or 4WD. You had every incentive to go along with him. And I read you 100% accurately; you never had any intention of allowing me in the draw.

Hellenic Riot: "Austria reacted in the dumbest way possible by continuing to try to eliminate me when I was the one person he was never going to outscore."

In F08, after Italy had stabbed me, you supported Italy into Ber and attacked Rum. This was after building A Stp and then moving that and F Swe toward my centers, opening up a very easy stab by France. Trusting you to help me into a draw was a very low percentage play. Better to take my fate into my own hands.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

France
vixol (1186 D (B))
Won. Bet: 5 D, won: 5 D
18 supply-centers, 14 units
Italy
xorxes (23722 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
14 supply-centers, 12 units
Austria
maddotter (834 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
2 supply-centers, 3 units
Russia
Hellenic Riot (1569 D (G))
Survived. Bet: 5 D
0 supply-centers, 2 units
England
yoak (1348 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Germany
brainbomb (474 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Turkey
MKECharlie (1926 D (G))
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
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