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Finished: 02 PM Thu 10 Mar 16 UTC
Divided We Fall, Again
1 day /phase
Pot: 100 D - Autumn, 2009, Finished
Fall of the American Empire IV, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
14 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 2001: Goodbye cruel world.
20 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: never fun to be the first -- bye heartland.
21 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: I am monitoring this game :)

Good luck, New York.
05 Mar 16 UTC Spring, 2008: .....just tightening up the borders a bit. a little boring over here right now. the troops could use some military exercises to stay sharp.
05 Mar 16 UTC Spring, 2008: I guess there is no reason not to have this conversation publicly. NAO and NYS are explicitly DMZs. Kentucky is clearly out of line and hostile in intent. You need to back off now.
05 Mar 16 UTC Spring, 2008: i thought the public forum was appropriate -- no secrets here.

i'm just having fun stretching my legs. Kentucky sucks though. I will leave.
05 Mar 16 UTC Spring, 2008: Stab him well
05 Mar 16 UTC Spring, 2008: all i brought was this rusty spoon though.
05 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 2008: New York, you've violated the agreed DMZs on four occasions now. At no time was a reasonable explanation given, nor has there been any attempts of remedying the trespassing. I hate to bring it to this level, however, anything but a full and immediate withdrawal from the DMZs back to your own territory will be considered an hostile act against us both. I would like for the game to be finished once California is gone, but if you insist on prolonging it, we'll take up the offer.
05 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 2008: You know, guys, it's not too late for us to tag team NY if he's giving you trouble
05 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 2008: here are my reasons for the dmz violations....
you guys are taking a long time finishing california. i am bored. so i'm just shuffling things around. finish california soon and we can draw. did you really just expect me to hold for 3 or 4 turns? that's not how this game works. i'm not going to attack both of you, that would be ridiculous.
05 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 2008: Any violation of the territory of mine or Mexico's or of DMZs arranged with either of us, or obviously hostile acts against either of us is an act of way against me.

California obviously falls next year. This year's challenge to fight your boredom is how to get out of every DMZ, hostile area, etc. in a single season. Enjoy.
05 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 2008: Here's why your reasons are invalid: shuffling things around does not constitute breaking agreements. You could've shuffled to your hearts intent within your own borders. You chose not to, and now you can choose to pull back. If you choose otherwise, I will see it as an act of war. Simple as that.

You're saying you want a three-way draw; this is your chance. If you attack one of us, you'll attack us both. There's nothing I enjoy more than punishing a backstabber, so make your choice: withdraw, or go to war. The call is yours.
05 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 2008: ok i'll let you know what i decide -
05 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 2008: tough room, though.
05 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 2008: ok i'll be honest i don't believe in draws unless they are forced. we are pretty close to a forced draw, but not quite. so let's force it. this will be fun.
05 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 2008: my draw vote is up, btw. so it's up to you. i can do this all day.
05 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 2008: You guys are class acts, seriously.
06 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 2008: (shakes his head and walks away)
06 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 2008: hang on cali i'm coming to save you
06 Mar 16 UTC Spring, 2009: All,

I'm going to be out of town with almost certainly no Internet from noon my time (about six hours from now) for 30-32 hours. By not clicking Ready, the fastest my moves can be required is after I return. I'm sorry for the delay, and the long period of silence at the end of this season and the beginning of the next one.
08 Mar 16 UTC All, I'm back. Thanks.
08 Mar 16 UTC your empire looks impressive, quebec, but your population is the puniest. :-)
08 Mar 16 UTC just to reiterate, we can draw if you want (unless you are looking for revenge) there is no solo to be had here. well done everybody.
08 Mar 16 UTC That's no way to beg for mercy...
08 Mar 16 UTC beging for mercy? nay, i bestow it on the remaining players, with my outstretched, benevolent fingers.
08 Mar 16 UTC I still can't believe you would stab for nothing, NY. Nice cooperation Quebec! Thanks for the game.
08 Mar 16 UTC Good game all. And yes, Mexico, the cooperation was wonderful. And so was New York's earlier.

I understand where he was going with his final moves, though I wouldn't do the same. It is almost impossible to arrange a 2wd on this board. Ending at 32/32 while finishing the last remaining units of the third is extremely hard, and often impossible. Typically, as is the case here, any two of three remaining can crush the third.

I wouldn't have taken New York's route because too many players decide that it calls for death at all costs. If either of us had been like that, one of us would probably have ended up soloing. Frankly, it probably would have been Mexico. I couldn't really pursue Pacific naval presence and confronting New York required leaving most of my base undefended. Mexico's base was safe and he could chosen his spots for slow growth while I fought for survival. Also, Mexico builds on my border, and I build (if not occupied by New York) far from his border. Imagine what things would have looked like if Mexico had landed Anchorage, Oregon, Washington and Arizona. He could have. The disbands I would have had and the positioning would have left me helpless. I would have had to appeal to New York, and he would have had to accept to avoid a Mexican solo. (That's why, as New York, I would have just taken the draw, rather than incur against me.)

That sorta game can end up see-sawing as one power (this time, me) shrinks. So Mexico and New York have to decide who comes off best and grows quickly when they have the alliance. I think the answer here was clearly Mexico.

Great game, all. I really enjoyed it.
08 Mar 16 UTC it was a fun game. mexico might have won, but probably not. i had prepared myself for all contingencies. and there is no such thing as a two way draw. cheers, well played.
08 Mar 16 UTC I had the total SCs wrong, but if each have 29 and vote draw, what happens?
09 Mar 16 UTC splitsies. this is DSS.
09 Mar 16 UTC Then how is that not a two way draw? :-)
09 Mar 16 UTC point being, there is no such thing as a stalemated 2 way draw....it is possible to draw of course but really one of those two should press for the solo.
09 Mar 16 UTC Oh, yes. One of things that I like about newer boards is that they aren't fully of stalemate lines like the original.
09 Mar 16 UTC * full of

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

New-York
ishirkmywork (1401 D)
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 33 D
21 supply-centers, 19 units
Mexico
dachi (644 D)
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 33 D
20 supply-centers, 19 units
Quebec
yoak (1417 D)
Drawn. Bet: 10 D, won: 33 D
17 supply-centers, 18 units
Peru
TheSpider (190 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Cuba
Chrisjc0623 (118 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
British-Columbia
inquisitor000 (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
California
Erisian523 (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Texas
letsgoJays13 (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Florida
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Heartland
Psilosha (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Civil Disorders
_Andrea_ (100 D)Florida (Autumn, 2000) with 3 centres.
MiddlesbroughGhettoMafia (100 D)Florida (Autumn, 2003) with 0 centres.
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