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Finished: 07 AM Sat 05 Mar 16 UTC
Private Dawn Awakening
3 days /phase
Pot: 140 D - Spring, 1912, Finished
Classic, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
17 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: TVibes sounds good! You can get Robert's streaking action then! Seems like he is giving up?
17 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: He was last seen in Sevastopol reading Das Kapital.
17 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: ;)
18 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: armenia is really ready for change. they've already turned purple, in spring!
18 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: I told the Sultan never to trust those treacherous Armenians...
18 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: Tell the sultan to check in and make the disband official. Silly game platform that allows the player to wait three days to make a move there is no alternative to.
18 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: The Turks won't allow units to disband. It's treason. So he is negotiating with his own troops about the conditions of their surrender. It may take some time.
18 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: Just found this in a local newspaper:
One thing that is obvious in this game, Turkey doesn't seem to make decisions that are the best for him. But they are almost consistently the best for Austria.
19 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: Btw, You can say the same about Italy and France...
19 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: Can I just be the first to say that I saw this all going differently in my mind?
19 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: So did Don Quixote :)
19 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: Please can Turkey make its moves. It was condition of joining the game to play to the end. It's not fair on the remaining players to be kept waiting in this manner.
19 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1908: Sorry everyone my slow moves are not cause I am loosing. I am in the alps with three small kids and an ill wife.
19 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1908: yes, the alps haven't been so easy on us this year. first nic with the same situation as robert, then me breaking my leg, and now you. good luck getting through it!
20 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1909: Question - Turkey's ukraine moved to Sevasapol, Rumania supported the move to Sevastapol from Ukraine. On the other side, Russia moved Moscow to Sevastapol without support. How did Ukraine not end up winning Sevastapol? What am I missing here?
20 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1909: oh galicia attacking rumania. OK understood, my bad.
21 Feb 16 UTC Spring, 1909: If anybody is interested, I've started a new live game, 15 min turns. Anonymous players. Starting in less tha. 2 hours. So Sunday evening game for the Europeans. Name is Evening Showdown. I've had my daughetrs now non-stop for over a week so need some daddy time. Anybody in?
24 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1909: Turkey, I love you and am sympathetic, but let's get this moving. I am eager to attempt get to another game one where I'm not losing the entire time.
24 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1909: Yeah, I don't have the patience for this. I've started another game. It's the N.A. Variant. Playing as Mexico ;)
24 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1909: US is going to build a wall and charge you for it, if you didn't hear...
24 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1909: Yes, trump will build that wall ;)
24 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1909: But he'll pay for it ;)
24 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1909: with Mexican labour ;-)
24 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1909: Thank you, Turkey. Let's go France and England. Tick-tock!
24 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1909: Give me 20
28 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1910: You gotta go to Syria. Can't leave a yellow patch. Might as well do some humanitarian whilst you're there ;-)
29 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1910: That was a message to the Kurdish forces I've been chatting with, just off the map SE ;-)
29 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1910: Perhaps, though Italy wad going to turn on France until I informed France.
29 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1910: Oops.
29 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1910: Haha
29 Feb 16 UTC Autumn, 1910: No, but we understand your loyalties now, thank you :-)
01 Mar 16 UTC Autumn, 1911: Well done chaps. Draw and a cup of tea, anyone?
01 Mar 16 UTC Good game everyone! Thanks for sticking with it!
01 Mar 16 UTC Good game people. (I can't believe I survived.)
02 Mar 16 UTC Collaboration works
02 Mar 16 UTC Well played guys but why didn't you continue until the end? Your goal in the game was to simply defeat Austria and turkey? Why aren't you fighting each other now? I thought the point of the game was for one player to achieve world domination or 18 supply centers?
02 Mar 16 UTC Take a look at the stats of diplomacy endings. I think it's about a tie between wins and draws. Just like real life war outcomes. Let's say you and turkey would have played a perfectly coordinated game, defeated the other major powers and then what. Turn on each other? Doesn't seem reasonable, no?
02 Mar 16 UTC * don't forget Germany.

We play for honour, my friend, not total victory. You distrusted us when we held out our hands to you. Perhaps now you recognise that we would not have crushed you, had you joined our alliance. We reward our allies.
02 Mar 16 UTC I don't think Russia and Italy in this game deserve a draw, it's silly. What does it give them? neither of them is happy with their own performance so where's the honor? In being passive facilitators and ending up being dependent on your mercy? If turkey and Austria were in your situation I would fully expect us to fight each other till the last man standing. Much more interesting IMO
02 Mar 16 UTC And also there's only one honorable choice to your offer to either betray turkey in return for not crushing me later and then calling it a draw or die and I think I chose the honorable choice here.
02 Mar 16 UTC Uri, I can imagine offering the weaker nations (Italy and Russia in this case) a draw is an incentive for joining a side and working together to the end. Small nations are sometimes pivotal in the success of a coalition force, no? And then once they've helped out what are the larger nations supposed to do? Turn on them and eclipse them? Or honor them for helping out win the war for the greater good (of the victors of course). Looking from the two perspectives of real life vs game. Would a large nation that helped out win a war be invaded unless the ruler is a crazy despot. And then in the game - do you want to be known as the leader that uses underprivileged nations for their greater good and then turns on them. Next game you wouldn't trust them since it's hard not to carry over previous experiences.
02 Mar 16 UTC For what it's worth, I just convinced France that Italy is a nice place to visit for vacation and best run by Italians for that purpose :-)

Seriously, it could have gone either way, I also could have chosen to not align with France from the start. When I made some errors in the Mediterranean France stepped in and prevented what would haven for sure been turkey and then Austria overrunning me. At that point I had two choices, align with two nations that I had no history with to try and restore the balance or just accept that the best thing for the Italian people was a partnership with France. It was easy. I also had fun role playing a crazy Italian dictator by sending messages to just about everyone that I was about to go out with a bang.

At the end of the day I choose to play like I would have had this been real and not just a game, and thought what is best for my people. I think that's the difference in playing styles that's perplexing you
02 Mar 16 UTC A draw is a draw. It is survival. An 18 SC win is different and more challenging. There are different ways to play and different goals. It doesn't really matter your views on this. It is what it is, and it ended the way it ended. Everyone has their reasons and views and that's fine. The game also would have been different had I known that Turkey and Austria are real life buddies and pre-disposed to coordinate actions and align. Perhaps I'm misreading the situation. but that doesn't matter too much, it's just relevant information to share from the outset if we are playing by a strict theory of how this game flows and ends.
03 Mar 16 UTC Hear hear

Putting the settings of the game as draw-size scoring was my fuckup, apologies.

I suggest that any next game be played under the following end-game scoring system:

This is a centre-based scoring system. In a draw, each player gets a proportion of the pot, scaled by their centre count:

(SC_count^2) / (sum of all players (SC_count^2))

Prizes to one who identifies the mathematical principle behind this formula.
03 Mar 16 UTC I'm good with that; not good with math formulas. Thanks!
03 Mar 16 UTC This felt like conference of Vienna/high school election/People's Front of Judea vs Judean People's Front. And Russia should know better than to pander to such nonsense. Fuck this - I am glad I went out early.

PS Roland stop writing formulas. Its pompous.

PPS When is the next game?
03 Mar 16 UTC This felt like conference of Vienna/high school election/People's Front of Judea vs Judean People's Front. And Russia should know better than to pander to such nonsense. Fuck this - I am glad I went out early.

PS Roland stop writing formulas. Its pompous.

PPS When is the next game?
04 Mar 16 UTC I hope you've learned something Marc ;-)
04 Mar 16 UTC What the fuck does that mean!?!?!?!?!?!
04 Mar 16 UTC Your strategy, if you had one other than 'let me piss off all my neighbours', clearly didn't go so well this round, don't you think?

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

France
jpuhrer (374 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 35 D
13 supply-centers, 13 units
England
rolandgp (110 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 35 D
13 supply-centers, 13 units
Italy
Silvexis (100 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 35 D
5 supply-centers, 5 units
Russia
JustinLouchheim (2795 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 35 D
3 supply-centers, 3 units
Austria
Uri (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
Turkey
Bilbobilbo (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
Germany
Mr M Shaw (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
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