Finished: 04 PM Fri 17 Jul 15 UTC
Private Brothers in Arms (password is abcd)
1 day /phase
Pot: 280 D - Autumn, 1905, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
25 Jun 15 UTC Spring, 1901: Hi everyone! Thanks for joining my game. There is a small matter that I need to explain before we really get into it: Russia and I are brothers (as in real-life, biological siblings). We play completely fairly, but we just find it more enjoyable to play in games together (mostly for bragging rights afterwards).

The only reason I'm mentioning it at all is that we ran into a bit of trouble with the moderators a while back. They informed us that the only way we would be allowed to play together is if 1) the game is password protected (the reason for the dumb password), and 2) all other players were informed of our relationship (the reason for this lengthy opening message).

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, let's play some Diplomacy!
30 Jun 15 UTC Spring, 1902: (peterwiggin): Italy, thank you for notifying the other players that your brother is also in this game. In the future, this needs to be done before the game begins so that the other players can take that into consideration when deciding whether or not to join the game. I apologize if I did not explain that clearly when we last discussed this.

Everybody else: I genuinely do not believe that these two are trying to meta-game. However, if you believe that this unbalances the game and that it should therefore be canceled, let me know at and I will cancel the game. If you do email me, please reference gameid=163347 in the subject line.
30 Jun 15 UTC Spring, 1902: Sorry about this, everyone. This is the first time we've attempted to play a game together under the conditions laid out for us. As peterwiggin explained, there was some miscommunication with the mods about what was acceptable. I think we have an interesting game going here so I would hate for it to be cancelled, but if anyone feels that the game has been unfair in any way then I guess that's what we'll have to do.
09 Jul 15 UTC Spring, 1904: In light of our new alliance (which is perfectly logical and strictly a product of how this individual game has unfolded), Austria has requested that the game be canceled. I'm going to email the mods and point out that this is certainly just sour grapes, but I thought everyone should know what's happening.
09 Jul 15 UTC Autumn, 1904: I think anyone could look at the board and see that there is nothing fishy about an R-I alliance right now. Especially given how terribly difficult it's been trying to communicate with Austria. Italy and I discussed the situation and found a common ground in that we both hated him lol. Hopefully the mods will see that Austria is just upset that things aren't going his way for once and tell him to suck it :P
09 Jul 15 UTC Autumn, 1904: Seriously, isn't everyone just sick of this dude?
11 Jul 15 UTC Autumn, 1904: Well we're getting to the point where this game has been ruined by some factors:
- First the ridiculous play by Austria, failing to submit orders, bad moves and whining
- Second the obvious you being brothers and allying issue. This would not have been an issue if people had been mature about it. But as it is, Turkey and Austria haven't. Thus interfering with the rest of the game.

I personally had fun playing this game. I think Germany and I have shown a good alliance. France had some bad plays and for that he's now loosing.

I think a fitting ending to this game would be; let Germany and me finish of France, while you take out the remainder of Austria. This will give us a 17-17 split, just about along the stalemate line.
Then we call it a 4 way draw. How do you all feel about this.
12 Jul 15 UTC Autumn, 1904: Hey guys. I'm totally sorry that I miss the last phase. Either way my destiny was made. See you next time
12 Jul 15 UTC Spring, 1905: I agree that Austria has essentially ruined this game. Is a 4-way draw the best way to rectify the situation? Does anyone other than England have a proposal? I'd like to play it out, but I've obviously benefitted from the Austrian's immaturity so my opinion probably counts for a little less.
12 Jul 15 UTC Spring, 1905: I'd be willing to accept the 4-wd, myself. I generally like to play out games a little further, but between the accusations of unfair play and what looks like play that is essentially an intentional throw of the game due to immaturity, I am willing to consider that an acceptable resolution to a game that I feel has been well played by most of the people at the board, with a few very unfortunate exceptions.
12 Jul 15 UTC Spring, 1905: I will, of course, play on if there is anyone that wants to push this game towards a conclusion, however.
12 Jul 15 UTC Spring, 1905: Why does the game have to end on your terms? the draw would only benefit england and germany. as if you two make one mistake in the following turns thats game for you as russia and italy can take you out. Even under normal circumstances the idea of a draw doesnt get discussed until the board is a clear stalemate, unless used as a diplomatic tool - which i hope is not the case here. This whole argument that a 4 way draw happens due to immaturity is invalid as it has only been austria and turkey who have done such things, compared to myself who hasnt complained about the alliance and is collateral damage. IF this was the true motive of the draw then a 5 way draw is what you would be offering. Thus your motive is clear, a points grab. In this case a 4 way draw best suits the british and germans due to the russians and italians having a higher chance of success in the current position. I say you play the game as per normal until the stalemate line is reached or a honourable 5 way draw between italy, russia, france, england and germany. In any of these cases however, 2 turns must be played and as such i think no one as the right to declare a draw until we assess the board in the next year.
12 Jul 15 UTC Spring, 1905: I agree with France. Austria faced certain elimination; we just don't know how long it would have taken had he continued playing. France did/does not face certain elimination; if we decide to draw the game after this year, he should be included. Right now, of the powers who did not directly benefit from Austria's hastened collapse (England, France, and Germany), there is a 2-1 majority in favor of playing it out.

I'd also like to defend Turkey's honor. He's getting lumped in with Austria and I don't think that's fair. He missed only the last phase, and he couldn't have done anything anyway. He's also been pleasant throughout the game.
16 Jul 15 UTC So what is the plan now? did you guys want to do the 5 draw now and go into a new game where we wont have this problem. Is infighting still up italy?
16 Jul 15 UTC I think a 5-way is reasonable and fair at this point. The western side of the board is stalemated fairly well. England holds the mid Atlantic firmly, Italy and France hold the western Mediterranean. France survives though unless Italy stabs him. England maybe takes Portugal or Spain with some lucky guesswork, but France will only be looking at an elimination if Italy takes his centers; unless Italy makes a mistake and does this with not enough units to hold the stalemate, though, that part of the map is still locked up. This will be the case unless I stab England or Russia stabs Italy.

In the east, I will have a stalemate position by Autumn, and no amount of pressure will drop Munich or Berlin unless England stabs me. Likewise, I can't get enough force inland against Russia unless Italy stabs him; a stalemate if neither party does.

At this rate, it is clear that we have a draw unless one alliance falls apart, and a 5 way draw if France survives. The following should be clear to everyone at this point:

1) If I stab England, he probably kills my stalemate line in retaliation. I also can't build units at the moment, so it literally is only good if I want to piss England off, and he's been a first class guy all game. The likely result: either I or England is eliminated, Russia and Italy both have good shots at a solo.

2) If England stabs me, he has to take enough pressure off of the Mid Atlantic to risk losing it. Also since I'm a gonner anyway if he does this, I probably do my best to hang on by cannibalizing some English centers. Likely outcome: Italy probably solos, but Russia might.

3) If Russia stabs Italy it shows from miles away at this point, and doing do probably leaves me room to push Moscow and Warsaw. This has a good chance of giving me a solo, provided England doesn't rush in and stab me while I am grabbing Russian centers.

For obvious reasons, the above stabs are all strategic errors: they all give the win to the players who do not stab. There's still one stab to talk about though.

4) Italy stabbing Russia is probably the one stab that makes any sense at all right now. All Italy has to do to keep his west safe is support France. Russia is piled like three armies deep on the German border, and can't react quickly to a stab unless he starts putting some units on his southern flank for defense (yes, Russia, this is advice). If Italy does this, in conjunction with taking the remaining French centers, he has a shot at a solo, but I don't think it's a great shot. I think he takes two centers off of France, meaning he needs 7 from Russia. He only gets these if he takes either Warsaw or Moscow, and I think he only gets that if I pile in on Russia, and do it badly rather than doing everything I can to stop the solo, which I will.

In this light, a 5 way is reasonable, because the only country on the board with any good long term reason to stab is Italy, and I still don't think it nets him a solo win. France is obviously the odd man out here, but I actually think it's in England and Germany's interest to support his position in Spain and Marseilles, because that prevents the chance of an Italian solo, and killing France actually isn't going to help us get past the stalemate line.
16 Jul 15 UTC Lengthy, I know, but felt I would lay it out there in case there are players at the board who have not looked at the long term strategic implications. I think this is a case where the draw with lots of players makes sense. Stalemate positions have been reached by both sides, and while a stab remains possible, no party save Italy has any good reason to expect that it will improve his position to do so, and with logical, long term strategic play, we shouldn't even have more eliminations. The only reason he other players on the board would stab right now would be to "keep the game interesting" or some such, and by the time you are hurting yourself to keep the game interesting, it's probably time to draw and go to the next game.
16 Jul 15 UTC I agree with Germany's assessment. I will put up the draw vote if others do.
16 Jul 15 UTC Also, it's been a real slog trying to get another game going. I've tried advertising in the forum but nobody joins the games. I'm trying to recruit players directly from my other games. So if any of you (except Austria, obviously) would like to play with us again, please join the game below!

gameID=164636 password is 12345
Basically the same deal, except we're taking another suggestion from the mods: the game is anon and we will keep it that way, so my brother and I will not know which power the other is playing and we will only communicate through the WebDip interface.
16 Jul 15 UTC I fully agree with Germany's accession of the situation. With all the issues with Austria I think it's a fair conclusion.
I'll back the vote
16 Jul 15 UTC And to all gg it's been fun!
16 Jul 15 UTC Alright, well then GG everyone. Please consider joining the other game!
16 Jul 15 UTC Hahaha oh lord, I'm in another game with Austria.
16 Jul 15 UTC gg guys hahaha
16 Jul 15 UTC GG, well played. Definitely one of the more interesting ones I've played here.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

TheMarauder (1270 D)
Drawn. Bet: 40 D, won: 56 D
9 supply-centers, 8 units
Scurvy Cur (155 D)
Drawn. Bet: 40 D, won: 56 D
8 supply-centers, 7 units
JohnnyValdez (137 D)
Drawn. Bet: 40 D, won: 56 D
8 supply-centers, 8 units
rikkie (128 D)
Drawn. Bet: 40 D, won: 56 D
6 supply-centers, 5 units
aha195 (1687 D)
Drawn. Bet: 40 D, won: 56 D
3 supply-centers, 2 units
awmunro (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 40 D
habsfanatic (406 D)
Defeated. Bet: 40 D
Civil Disorders
habsfanatic (406 D)Turkey (Autumn, 1904) with 0 centres.
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