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Finished: 06 PM Fri 05 Jun 15 UTC
Cold Hearted Diplomats
2 days /phase
Pot: 567 D - Spring, 1910, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
27 May 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: Well it certainly doesn't look like anyone will solo -- should we just call this one a draw? Or are you planning to eliminate me first?
27 May 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: I'm fine with a 4-way draw or a 3-way.
28 May 15 UTC Spring, 1908: Sorry I didn't ready up there. I just hit ready.
29 May 15 UTC Spring, 1908: Well France has put up his draw flag and Germany says he's willing to draw 4 ways... Russia, should we assume from your silence that you're not interested?
29 May 15 UTC Spring, 1908: I am representing the will of the majority in holding out for a couple of turns. My opinion might change, though. Lets look after this season.
29 May 15 UTC Spring, 1908: What do you mean holding out? Are we going to do a 4-way draw now, or are you going to finish off Turkey and then we do a 3-way draw?
29 May 15 UTC Spring, 1908: I'm the most guilty of this, but if everyone ready's up often this game will be finished soon.
30 May 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: You guys are right. Its taking way too long to finish this. My draw vote is up.
30 May 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Germany, youre the hold out now.
31 May 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: I'd really much rather a 3-way draw with France and either Russia or Turkey. Right now, all three of the major powers are the same size so there isn't really a threat of anyone getting a solo. Even if I leapt for SCs, I'd be at maybe 13 before I'd be crushed. I think we need to reduce this down to a three-way draw -- two strong 2nd and 3rd powers can always keep the biggest power in check if they get above ~15 SCs like Russia almost was before.
31 May 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Here's how I see it:
- A 4-way draw gives each power 141 points, while a a 3-way draw gives us each 189 points -- 58 more. I'd much rather hold out for a 3-way draw.
- Russia is in a good position to finish off Turkey within 2 years, and Turkey is in a good position to finish off Russia within 3 years (both conditional on me and France joining with one of them)
- All of the three major powers have 10 SCs -- France is getting Tunis and St. P, I'll be getting Warsaw, and Sweden could be mine if I wanted it. There is no real imbalance between the powers here.
- Any attempts to portray an imbalance is someone trying to gang up on their neighbor to go for the single
- Russia and Turkey seem to have slowed down their fighting

Summary: I think France and I should join forces with either Russia or Turkey to conquer the other and finish off in a 3-way draw. It doesn't make sense to do anything different.
31 May 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Why do you care so much about the points?
31 May 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Isn't that half the point of the game? I think it makes no sense that we do a 4-way draw after the game has gone on this long and a 3-way draw is guaranteed if you and I band together.
01 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: that's all fine, I just am not one who cares about points, that's all
01 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: I just see it as a benchmark. A 3-way draw is much more preferable to a 4-way draw. Anyway, we are just waiting on Turkey and Russia to ready up.
01 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: It looks like Turkey is NMRing so this should finish up fast
01 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: and by fast I mean this retreat phase, 2 move phases, 1 retreat phase for the army in Ankara, and a build phase, so 8 days from now
01 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: I didn't NMR, I just got sold a bill of goods and trusted the wrong player :P
01 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: It takes a special kind of naivety to get stabbed by the same player twice in the same game.
01 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: you really trusted Russia? That was dumb haha.
01 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Also, well played Russia... getting Turkey to trust you after that stab was precious.
02 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: remaining powers: I guess 1-2 years left and then we draw
02 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Youre a great player turkey. Im just way too mean lol
02 Jun 15 UTC Spring, 1909: Fair enough. Germany keeps feeding me lines about how he'll be able to rescue me from this position (which he wants me to keep secret, for some reason?), but this was inevitable the minute he turned his back on the draw he'd agreed to. Thanks for the game all.
02 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: I never agreed to a 4-way draw, I suggested it as a possibility when it looked like you weren't going to suicide and Russia was close to a single. And the only reason I was feeding you anything was because I wasn't sure Russia would finish you off in the end, so I wanted a partner in case we needed turn on him to get the 3-way draw.
02 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: Ready up please everyone so we can get this over with
03 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: You are the one who did not ready
03 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: What do you mean? Yeah I did? The only one we are waiting on is Russia.
03 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: Sorry i took a while
03 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: oops Russia tried to get clever with Warsaw. anyway net turn we finish up
03 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: gotta wait for Turkey to be fully eliminated
03 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: fyi I'll be traveling the next two days so might not be responsive
03 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: france if you ready up quickly I'll be able to ready up soon after so we can get past the build phase and end this
03 Jun 15 UTC Awesome. Lets get this draw going.
03 Jun 15 UTC Thanks for the game all!
03 Jun 15 UTC Thanks turkey for readying up. Its rare to see such chivalry
03 Jun 15 UTC Germany, you have readied but not hit draw ...
03 Jun 15 UTC Took down my draw vote. Germany let me know if you want to draw and ill press it whenever youd like.
03 Jun 15 UTC Thanks, Russia I'll rspond to your private message in a bit. If Get won't vote draw we'll defeat him together
04 Jun 15 UTC i'm on my phone. I just hit draw so the game should end if you re-enter your votes.
04 Jun 15 UTC Thank you just did, Russia will
04 Jun 15 UTC It was nice playing with both of you. I had hoped a single would be possible but y'all boxed me in well.
04 Jun 15 UTC That's an unfortunate admission by you given your press statements
04 Jun 15 UTC It's Diplomacy. Did Russia in this game, or any other player ever, admit to wanting a single prior to having it assured? That's a part of the game.
04 Jun 15 UTC Hey, as you know, I've been playing for 35 years. I don't need you to tell me what diplomacy is. What I know is that you lied about putting up your vote. Plain and simple. If you want to continue then take the vote down and the two of us will destroy you and take your precious points, which seems to be all you care about, not integrity
04 Jun 15 UTC I put my vote up and I'm keeping it up until Russia votes too. If you've been playing for 35 years, have you really never said you are going to draw only to attack at the last minute? I don't believe that. It's a game... don't get so upset!
04 Jun 15 UTC ...unless, of course, you're just thinking about how you are probably in a better position than Russia or I to get a single. I was never in the best position for a single. Even now you threaten Belgium, Munich, Greece, Vienna, London, and soon even Edinburgh and Smyrna. You really believe in all the things you're professing? ;) ;) ;) (moral of your story: always tell the truth in Diplomacy :-p)
04 Jun 15 UTC As far as im concerned, germany, you played some good diplomacy. A little bit annoying to play with, but definitely good game! =) and frace shame we didnt talk till like 07 lol.
04 Jun 15 UTC Ditto to what Russia said ... Germany you played a very good game, I got annoyed too, but that means you were pushing the right buttons. I think the three of us did the right thing here. Good times.
04 Jun 15 UTC Glad to play with both of you. Russia was a bit unpredictable and France a bit predictable. I had fun figuring out how to deal with your different personalities. Turkey was also a great player but got caught in the end. I would love to play with all of you again.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

mattsh (775 D)
Drawn. Bet: 75 D, won: 189 D
13 supply-centers, 13 units
Rancher (1966 D (S))
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jmbostwick (2570 D)
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