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Finished: 07 AM Sun 15 Feb 15 UTC
Private Oct 2014 GR Challenge Game 3
2 days /phase
Pot: 350 D - Spring, 1911, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
20 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: Anyway, guess we'll find out at the end.
24 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: Can anyone provide me with any insight as to why I would be a threat to Austria at this point? Seriously, I am just boggled regarding his reaction to my most recent set of moves.
24 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: Maybe, it's just because I'm not seeing it from an objective viewpoint, but I don't see even one way in which I could touch him with my current set up.
24 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: You are fine. He is expending alot of energy convincing me that we can cut England out and have a 3 way draw. All I would need to do is move north off the stalemate lines.
I am stating for the record I intend to hold the stalemate line positions and hand them over to England or Austria...whichever moves on me first.
29 Jan 15 UTC Spring, 1908: Ok. If thats the way you want to be, Austria can have my SC's.
I am moving Sevaspol to Ukraine Austria. Feel free to walk in.
29 Jan 15 UTC Spring, 1908: Your a damn idiot England. Count his run to 18. Ankara & Sevaspol = 14. Tunis & Marseilles = 16. That leaves him two away from 18 and way way more units than us on the border SC's (he can get 3 on Warsaw and I have 2 to defend it) and with France losing two units you think he can hold Spain & Munich?

God man, you trying to lose?
29 Jan 15 UTC Spring, 1908: Because I totally couldn't support France from MAO. He is the one who has put up no defense against Austria. Not me. And he is choosing to block the wrong player. Blame me if you want, but France should have gone to Spain regard less of my moves.
29 Jan 15 UTC Spring, 1908: Why should he when you clearly arent backing off....proven by the fact you keep attacking and not moving an army to Livonia to support me. Unless you give us incentive to get us all to the draw...we are just as happy to give a solo to Austria.
29 Jan 15 UTC Spring, 1908: Let us know by your actions your on board with a draw.
29 Jan 15 UTC Spring, 1908: Simple, England taking MAO = bad, but possibility for support, Austria soloing = worse.
29 Jan 15 UTC Spring, 1908: Also, see the vote board. I'm not the one you need to convince to draw.
29 Jan 15 UTC Spring, 1908: We cant convince him if you attacking us and thus weakening those who can stop him
29 Jan 15 UTC Spring, 1908: Oh don't give me that crap, England. You have said nothing about supporting me through putting a unit in the MAO. Honestly, if you would have even suggested it, I would have done so, albeit totally unwillingly.

You'll be getting in now, but I've given you every opportunity to give me space to move south, but you just keep on doing the same thing over and over. Whatever, let's just make sure we get a draw out of this.
30 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Is this a joke?? I hate overblown fears of soloing.
Do you'll realise that I could have made the EXACT same moves 1 turn ago, 2 turns ago and also 3 turns ago??
I didn't.. Why?? Not to take a solo or something (which I still can't) but because I wanted to prove to you'll that I had no intentions of solo-ing.
All I wanted was to reduce the fucking draw.

F told me 1000 times lets eliminate Russia. He said attack Russia and lets finish this - I said ok. I kept all my other units withdrawn and attacked R but F had told R about the attack (after egging me to attack R) and also blocked E's attack on R.
At this point I was like wtf - here I am cooperating and holding all my units back. and no one wants to cooperate.
Every move I have made has been in consultation with E. I have not been taking SCs so that the stupid solo fears dont keep running around like this.
My moves are purely to put pressure on France because he's not playing ball. I have asked permission from E before making these moves and I will ask his permission before doing anything else.
Cos the point of this is to narrow down the draw, not solo. As I said - if I wanted to I could have done this before. I DIDNT. I waited and held back and then even this move, I made with explicit permission.
Stop talking stupid soloes - thats Russia's way of desperately clinging on to a draw now. Which is understandable.
And here's the crux France - I suspect I will help eliminate you as well and 2WD with him as well.
30 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: "reducing the draw" is what every person says when they are in the lead and inching their way to a solo. If you hear those words then you should just assume he said "solo run".
"2 way draw" is what people say when they want to solo. If you hear those words you should assume he said "I think you are an idiot and believe I will draw when I have a win in front of my face."
30 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Reducing the draw and 2 way draw are things people say when they actually want to solo. Very true.
But if everytime someone said that, a solo was the only aim, then we would not have any 2 way draws and reduced draws no? The point is that it is not always the case. Many a times, it is the honest truth - and because of that, there are examples of beautifully organised 2 way draws and also examples of draws well reduced

In this particular case, answer me two questions:
1) If I want to solo, why did I not make the same moves 2-3 turns ago when I had the same number of units in almost same positions
2) Why did I NOT attack Russia till *after* France gave me permission to do so/
3) And why did I not move towards France till *after* England gave me permission to do so.

All of the above clearly indicate that I don't want to solo. That I have been keeping my units back, not taking SCs (for ex I didn't take Tunis) and also making moves with complete transparency and after full negotiation. Every move I have made is with the consent and permission of first France, and then England. Not to solo - but to build trust to get a better result. Cos that is the aim of the game - otherwise why play and eliminate people at all.
30 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: You are by far the best player here. You are very patient and take the time to allow the situation to develop and foster trust well....much like when you ecouraged France and I to move units off the stalemate line under the belief we would eliminate England as if that was possible.
Lucky for everyone.....I saw through that trickery. Unlucky for all of us, england seems to have fallen for it.

Also, you didnt make those moves because a successful solo doesnt sprint but a slow crawl which you can waive off as you are doing now
30 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: I appreciate the compliment, but with the calibre of players here, that is way off the mark.
Let me reiterate: I have always been interested in reducing the draw.
I was frustrated with E because of his non communication with me for 5 years so early on I was receptive to the idea of you and F working against him. There was no trickery - you outright refused (which you shouldn't have)
You refused - and later E started talking to me openly and nicely, so it became palatable for me to work with him as I got along very well with him. And vice versa.

As for sprint vs crawl - let me reiterate - the same moves I made now, I could have made ages ago. Fast or slow, the move 2 turns ago and the move now was equally fast or slow. It makes no sense for me to wait for youll to get builds before attacking (which I actively tried to make happen)
Anyway, I am done here - this is your desperate attempt to survive the game - which is understandable and commendable.
No one is buying it though.
30 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Rooting for Austria to win this one. It'll make me feel a lot better about being hoodwinked by him so badly.
30 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Your logic is astounding, Austria. Let me address several of your complaints from my perspective.

First off, you could not have made this move three turns ago and still have finished off Turkey. You needed one of your fleets in that direction. Could you have come my way? Sure, but I would have started throwing the game to England, and you know that.

As for telling you 1000 times to eliminate Russia, I just went back through the archives and I could only find one time where I explicitly stated that you should eliminate Russia. There were several times I stated it was up to you whether we ended this in a three way draw or a four-way draw, and that is not even asking for an attack. I was just stating the facts.

As for telling Russia you were attacking, you never even told me whether or not you were going to attack him! So, with that in mind, how could I possibly warn him that you were attacking? In fact, scrolling through my press with Russia, I told him to stay in Berlin, and I would just support him there. He was the one who wanted to move to Silesia, and I had no idea you were planning on moving there. And, again, I never mentioned even the possibility of you attacking him.

As for blocking England's attack on Berlin, I was simply trying to stall movement in every direction. I didn't want England in Berlin with the opportunity to move against Munich his next advance. I had no idea it would infuriate you in such a manner.

Finally, if this game ends in a two-way draw, I will respectfully salute both you and Austria for being willing to give up the solo, because that is the only way two-way draws happen. If that's the choice you want to make, good for you, but don't tell me I'm not 'playing ball', since there is literally nothing I could do for you.
30 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: *salute both you and England

Pardon my mistake lol
31 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: France:
a) You have said and done things differently from what you have told me sometimes. Fact.
b) Yes, I agree I would have 1 fleet less – everything else would have been the same (Oh, I would have had Tunis too – so it would be even better) – I am not taking French centers so far.
c) 1000 times is obviously an exaggeration – but you mentioned eliminating Russia atleast 3-4 times and asked me to do it whenever I wanted to
d) You did not want England in Berlin with the opp to move against Mun? Fleet in Ber cant attack Mun!!!
e) That is NOT the only way 2WDs happen. I guarantee you that. This will be either a well arranged 3 way or 2 way.
f) Its a pleasure talking with all of you but Im done with global chat
31 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: The first three complaints I have addressed thoroughly in private press (and even somewhat in global). As for d, I am well aware a fleet can't move into Munich, but giving England another build and knowing that said build would be heading my direction was more my point.

And again, all I said regarding Russia was that his elimination was the most likely course for a three-way draw. Only once did I say you should act on it; otherwise, I left the decision up to you.

And, finally, I don't think you could convince me there has ever been a two-way draw where one of the parties could not have broken from the arrangement in order to solo. However, I have been wrong countless times, and I will be wrong countless more.
31 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: I too have been wrong countless times and I will be wrong countless times later too - but this has only been about reducing the draw. The proof lies in my past moves - no one can adequately explain any other reason for all my past moves - and the proof will lie in my future moves too.
31 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Whatevs. You do you and I'll do me. #YOLO
31 Jan 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: FYI that was @ all y'all.
04 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Cant we just ready up and finish this off in a couple days instead of a couple weeks?
04 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Lo siento.
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: Well played. Good risk taken with Tunis there. Changed the Tunis orders at the last minute. Fuck me.
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: Sil was supposed to support me into Munich also - I don't know what happened there.. Damn..
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: You guys took a big risk keeping Mun and Tunis open there - Fuck. So close :)
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: Unless I am mistaken, that is a stalemate.
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: Oh War was already tapping Sil.. Hmmm.
So Boh, Tyr S Sil-Mun was the only way to win it.
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: Eng actually gave away that Tunis would not be protected. (Did you realise that Eng?)
So I was going to attack Tunis but changed it at the last minute. Big mistake.
So tough to play a full game, have a shot at a solo and then fuck it up :)
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: I realized retroactively (part of an exchange trying to make him draw) but I figured you would dismiss it.
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: Well defended at the death E and F. My aim was to get you'll to hate each other enough for cooperation between you'll to become too difficult - but it didn't work.
I was hanging back only in order to foster more anger and ill feeling between E, F and R. Get each person to attack the other, spread rumours, and eventually someone will get too angry :) I almost had it - R was getting super pissed with E and was about to throw to me - but then he backed out and stuck to the stalemate.
My main aim was to get F and R to successfully attack E. F's move to Bur and WM effectively killed my solo and made me try for the solo earlier than I wanted to.
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: It was a very well-played game. Sorry, I was a jack-ass at times in my press with you. I do have a great deal of respect for you as a player, despite my incessant yammering. Well played, all.
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: Just ready up your moves guys. I am going to take another turn. Hold the stalemate line :)
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: Seriously? There is nothing you can do at this point. Liv & StP can hold Mos indefinitely. MAO can hold West Med indefinitely. Ruhr & Kiel can hold Mun indefinitely. NaF can hold Tun indefinitely. Gas can hold Spain indefinitely.

And the two spaces you would need to break any of these potential centers are now blocked. I will build an army in Par and move to Bur (in an infinite bounce) and Berlin can hold Prussia indefinitely. The stalemate line is set. Draw the game.
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: Just ready up your moves immediately then if it is that easy. Should be no problem doing that in a few hours.
Apologies if you'll are frustrated but I have my reasons. I am well within my right to extend it by a year. Hopefully, you'll will see why.
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: I would agree, you are within your right to extend it by a year, but it is a rather boorish move on your part, particularly when a legitimate stalemate line is set.
09 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: I was not ever going to throw it to you Austria. I was just vaguely playing along in hopes you would sit back a little. Then I went silent at the end to make you unsure of what I would do.
09 Feb 15 UTC Spring, 1910: I don't think that's what he's seeing, Russia.
09 Feb 15 UTC Spring, 1910: I don't either, sadly. I think he sees a way to lower the draw without actually threatening for a solo...
11 Feb 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: What happened to readying up lol?
12 Feb 15 UTC Good game all. You were so close Sh@dow, but we were able to stop you in time.
12 Feb 15 UTC Sorry Russia - The aim was not to eliminate you. It was to bait England to go for a 2 way draw so that I had another solo shot. I tried really really really hard but he did not take it.

I am disappointed at not taking the solo; should have made a leap at crossing the stalemate lines earlier - but well done on defending it also. Well played all - enjoyed the game.
12 Feb 15 UTC Yeah, it was good bait, but you had tried that trick one too many times. Still, your rhetoric is amazing.
12 Feb 15 UTC Anyway, EOG is up if we want to talk about how this went.
12 Feb 15 UTC Well, this is nice haha. I just gave up a solo to Sh@dow, so actually stopping him in this game feels a little bit rewarding haha. Well played game, all. Sorry, Russia, I tried to convince England to keep you around, but it was not to be.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Sh@dow (3512 D)
Drawn. Bet: 50 D, won: 117 D
16 supply-centers, 16 units
VashtaNeurotic (2394 D)
Drawn. Bet: 50 D, won: 117 D
12 supply-centers, 12 units
Zachattack413 (1198 D)
Drawn. Bet: 50 D, won: 117 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
A_Tin_Can (2244 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Craig (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
dyager_nh (644 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
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