Finished: 09 AM Tue 27 May 14 UTC
Private Old Reliable 1
1 day /phase
Pot: 175 D - Autumn, 1913, Finished
Classic, No messaging, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
25 May 14 UTC GameMaster: Hunebed was banned: no reply/repeat meta. The time until the next phase has been extended by one phase length to give an opportunity to replace the player.
Remember to finalize your orders if you don't want to wait, so the game isn't held up unnecessarily!
25 May 14 UTC That's a shitty ending. Good game, guys. I got the three-way draw I wanted anyway...
25 May 14 UTC Thanks for playing, everyone. Someday I'll figure out how to play Russia.
25 May 14 UTC It probably should have been a 4-way. After knocking Russia and France out in 1911, AIT had the stalemate locked up against the obvious solo threat of England, and each of us had the power to throw the game to England, making the draw irreducible.

I'm surprised a bit surprised to hear that England was holding out for the 3-way. Which power did you think could be safely eliminated? I assumed that England was holding out to hope that one of us would play stupid and give him the solo (which Turkey seem bent on doing).

Turkey's late game actions didn't make any sense to me. Turkey, were you actually trying to take me out of the draw? It seemed much more like you were just aiming on throwing the solo to England.

Had Italy not been banned, there would have been two possible endings to this game: the 4-way draw or the English solo. To be honest, upon seeing the Turkish attack on Bulgaria and army build, I was ready to order a full retreat in the last spring phase to throw the game to England, but I changed my orders quite late in the phase to a smaller scale retreat and support-move signalling of my willingness throw Warsaw, Moscow and Munich to England. Given Turkey's continued attack on Greece and Rumania, I was set on just throwing the game to England had Italy not been banned this fall.

Classy move by England to not just gobble up a cheap, easy solo from the Italian ban and Turkish stupidity.
25 May 14 UTC Russia, so for the first three years we were working great together and had Turkey backed into the corner to be finished off. Then in 1904, you inexplicably turned your attentions squarely on me, passing up on the opportunity to slide into Armenia to finally get within striking distance of a Turkey that has been harassing you all game.

Why the sudden change of heart? Had I grown too much for you to be comfortable with? Were you worried about an eventual stab from me and figured that the Turk which you had just evicted from Sev would make a better ally?
25 May 14 UTC Russia is a tough country to play. I've never figured it out, to be honest. If you get attacked by any three of the combination of your four immediate neighbors, assuming you let England into Norway in 1901, you're not going to survive. No other country has that kind of immediate threat - maybe Austria, but still, Austria hardly ever has to worry about Germany moving his way early in the game.

For me, I only made it where I did because of a few lucky breaks and some poor play on the part of Germany. He was screwed, though, when France and I both went after him at about the same time. After that, I tried to see if France might let his guard down, and while I didn't actually gain any territory, it eventually worked because he let Italy get the upper hand in the Med again. Once Italy got into France, I grabbed the leftovers where I could, and before I knew it, I was at 14 centers.

I didn't really have any solo hopes with Austria in Munich and holding the Moscow line, so I backed off of Spain, since even if Italy took it, I still had a stalemate and an untouchable center in Portugal. He chose to leave it alone and not risk messing up his own line, which was probably smart, but as we know now, he was evidently not as smart as his play suggests. That's why the game's over already. Otherwise, I was just going to hold out for a couple of years and wait to see if anyone got antsy and attacked, given the proximity to Italy and Turkey alike that Austria held. If things didn't go downhill, I was tempted to back up even further and see if Austria might try for a solo himself.

When Turkey attacked Austria, I figured I would eventually get a solo chance, so I took Paris to build an extra army to prepare. I probably would have been able to get it even if Austria tried to get back into Munich, but when Italy was banned, I figured I wouldn't let a good all around game become one of those, so I drew, and a good game to all.
26 May 14 UTC Austria, that was more or less it. I just couldn't believe that, with a friendly Italian ally and a weak Turkey, you wouldn't be coming for me pretty soon. I thought going after Turkey would strengthen you more quickly and make my demise that much more rapid. I didn't have the firepower to do much damage to you, but I thought Turkey might work with me now that he'd gotten rid of my fleet in Sev. Of course, he went out of his way not to work with me, and I got slaughtered. But this gets to my problem with playing Russia. I have Plan A, which is work with Turkey and try to get a juggernaut going, but if Turkey doesn't play along I have no workable Plan B.
26 May 14 UTC Really enjoyed this game even though I never really got out of my corner.
Really good to play in a game with any NMRs and credit to Bo for drawing when Italy got banned. Thanks also for pausing over my holiday.

Austria to understand why I had to be a thorn in your side at the end look at Spring 1912 map. Eng was only country not voting draw at this stage. I think he was sending you a signal with his supports and keeping out of Spain to say "I'm happy with three-way, go and take Turkey out" If I were you, I would have taken Sev with Ukr next move leaving me with just my home SCs. I would have had to station a unit in Arm and my two remaing fleets would have eventually succumed to an Austrian attack. Bearing in mind you would have a build coming and had plenty of units to enable you to hold your ground and wipe me out, my only option was to attack. If you were serious about letting me share a draw you would distroy fleets so as to remove a threat.

Also we had (correctly) just taken out two weak countries when some kind of draw or Eng solo was inevitable. I thought it was just a case of you continuing with that policy of reducing players in a draw.
26 May 14 UTC Ok, I get the paranoia at the beginning of spring 1912, but look at the situation right after that year. I clearly didn't turn back to attack you in Sev nor pull the Tyr fleet back into Ion. Instead, you gained Bulgaria and I destroyed one of my fleets.

Then with the 1912 build you put down another army and use 1913 to attack Greece and Rum? What's the justification for attacking those two SCs? The mere threat would be enough to keep me in check, but actually acting on it only made me assume that you were stupid enough to hand England an easy solo. Did my 1912 moves spook you?

I hope you realize how close your paranoia came to throwing the game to England. We're both lucky that Italy got banned leading to bo choosing the sporting option of taking the draw. If Italy hadn't been banned, I was planning to just fully throw the game to England in Fall 1913 (by leaving Mun, War, and Mos open while slowing you down and maybe even undercutting Italy's position). If England had decided to play on with he CDed Italy, I probably would have just done the same to end the game quicker.

Turkey, I noticed that you had orders readied for fall 1913. What were your fall 1913 plans?
26 May 14 UTC He's exactly right about the messages I tried to send nonetheless. I also don't think it would have been necessary to throw a solo given the Turkish attack. You could have surrendered Munich without risking a solo, and you could have held Warsaw and Moscow pretty easily with just the units that are already up there, at least for the time being. You'd have been able to shrink Turkey back to where he came from without giving up anything terribly vital.
26 May 14 UTC My last set of orders were aeg-ION, gre-bul, bul-sev via BS convoy. con-aeg. I think that would have sent a clear message and we could have held on for 3 way.
26 May 14 UTC Austria - why throw game and lose for certain when backing off from fighting me would either see you lose anyway or being part of a 4 way draw? I couldn't hope for anything better than 4 way so wouldn't have attacked you once I was safe.
27 May 14 UTC Why attack Rumania and Greece in the first place? Didn't my 1912 moves make it clear that I wasn't gunning for a 3way? I didn't attack a single one of your centers andmerely made some defensive moves while holding the line. You didn't feel safe after 1912?

I would have thrown the game since your 1913 attack seemed completely illogical toward establishing the 4way, and only suggested that you were already bent on sabotaging for the English solo or foolishly aiming for a 3way. I think the logical play for your 1913 spring would have been to put the army back into Sev, while advancing no further on my rear to demonstrate that you were on board for the 4way (maybe even waive the build to demonstrate that Bulgaria was just a misunderstanding). Instead, you continued preemptive aggression when I had shown none. You're expecting me to see your actions as merely logical paranoia, but why should I give you the benefit of the doubt when your moves were showing, at best, absolutely no faith in me, or at worst, the intent to remove me from the game or to give England the solo. It also didn't help that you removed your draw vote for parts of 1912/early 13.

I was ready to throw the solo since I had lost confidence in your intent to play for a draw with me in it. Yes, that would require me to assume that you were playing irrationally, ignorant of the solo threat, and/or unaware of the nature of WTA, but that seemed like the most logical explanation given your actions.
27 May 14 UTC I think we just se things differently, but as i'm always willing to learn I'll ask forum for advice about my late stage play. My withdrawal of draw was just to see if Eng was then going to offer a draw and i'd snatch his hand off - prob a mistake as this sent wrong signal to you.
27 May 14 UTC I'm with you here, yebellz. You're perfectly in the draw with your three home centers, especially since Austria has one fleet that's out of position. If he had two, maybe I'd see it differently, but he couldn't have touched you.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

bo_sox48 (4899 D Mod (G))
Drawn. Bet: 25 D, won: 58 D
14 supply-centers, 14 units
yebellz (729 D (G))
Drawn. Bet: 25 D, won: 58 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
Maniac (194 D (B))
Drawn. Bet: 25 D, won: 58 D
5 supply-centers, 5 units
Hunebed (211 D X)
Resigned. Bet: 25 D
6 supply-centers, 5 units
cleel1122 (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 25 D
Raffy (1706 D)
Defeated. Bet: 25 D
sanctacaris (556 D)
Defeated. Bet: 25 D
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