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Finished: 04 AM Thu 07 Mar 13 UTC
Private 7. In the House of Tom Bombadil
2 days /phase (slow)
Pot: 35 D - Spring, 1906, Finished
Public messaging only, Draw-Size Scoring
Game drawn
06 Mar 13 UTC Timur - I have nothing against you. I am just frustrated because you dn't appear willing to engage in diplomacy at all, even from the start of the game. We all understood the value in chatting/hanging out in the game, but for it to be fun we all have to commit to actually putting effort into playing.

Everyone is entitled to their own decisions. But the game does involve a certain element of give-and-take ebwteen players. You haven't done this. If you want to play this game for purely social reasons and you don't care about the outcome I would prefer not to play with you anymore.

i enjoy your company, though, and if you do intend to play this game with a comepetitive spirit in the future I would be happy to give this another shot.

If Yonni decides not to end the game, perhaps we can continue to try to work out our differences here.
06 Mar 13 UTC We can start with why I should let you have STP back. What is in it for me? What are you willing to do for me if I offer to leave this place vacant for you?
06 Mar 13 UTC I'd rather cancel.
06 Mar 13 UTC I just got back home though, didn't see any of your messages about drawing. Why giving up all of a sudden?
Seems like a waste of time. I'd prefer to wipe this game completely from memory and record if that's the case.
06 Mar 13 UTC Or take out Timur and then draw. I don't appreciate being threatened to end a game early.
07 Mar 13 UTC Listen Draug, Tom wants a solo. Why else did he stab a good ally? I want a draw, with you. Please do not leave your own fate up to Tom here. Let's put our ineterests first - they are the same. What do I need to do to prove this?
07 Mar 13 UTC I go out for a fantastic day of ski (sadly the last ), and find this??? Gotta get the BBQ going. Will be right back
07 Mar 13 UTC OK... here's my very humble opinion.
Since this was meant to be a friendly game,a seven way draw seems more fitting than a cancel, the latter stinking of failed friendliness. In fact,though we're not all best buds now,it feels to me like we got a genuine chance to know each other better and there's no bad blood between anyone. sounds like we've done decently by Tom's objective then,and having everyone on board for the draw seems to work with other payers objective (as far as I could understand it). So maybe it's only fitting that we end it like that?
07 Mar 13 UTC Boo! Start a chat room if you just want draws. ; )
07 Mar 13 UTC There will, of course, likely be no EOG from me as we never reached that point in the match.
07 Mar 13 UTC Ha. I was trying to hint to you Lando that I screwed up. Was going after Draug if the game continued. Oh well. It was still fun. Look for a serious competive PP game from me in the future. It will be anon, and I'll let yall know via PM when I start it.
07 Mar 13 UTC My eog is already explicit in many comments made in game
07 Mar 13 UTC With two fleets tom?? I knew you screwed up lol, but I didnt think you had!
07 Mar 13 UTC Sorry you guys, but I think we ran the gamut of (mis)interpretations of the original purpose of the game. In that case, it's no wonder we are frustrated by the game itself and the outcome. *If* it is started up again and *if* I'm invited, unlikely, there would have to be mutual agreement on the precise objectives of the game. Not sure I can handle PP, though. My negotiating skills are weak. That was my first PP and I was finding it really difficult, whereas others were good at giving and receiving hints quite easily. Just not devious enough. Not sure I would want to join a restart, though I enjoyed the company and the experience. ps From now on, I'll work on being a real mean SOB. Cheers.
07 Mar 13 UTC That's what I was trying to tell you Timur: you can't really agree with the other payers on the game's objectives. You have to set your own and bring the others to share your point of view through diplomacy. But getting a bunch of guys playing a game of diplomatic domination to play it in a friendly way will likely always prove difficult. In this game, there's always a point where war makes enemies of friends. Avoiding this leaves one without real direction and that's going to be a problem sooner or later. Being friendly and all jokes in chat should not alter the overall objective of the game. Without trying to win, the game can't really progress since it's dynamics rely solely on the players ' intentions.
07 Mar 13 UTC Ok, all that having been said, with everyone screaming for overt competition, is there not a case for covert competition. I went for the draw because all wanted it except one. I thought I was in a pretty good position. I was going to wipe out Austria; I was about to kick England out of StP. I was supporting Turkey to keep a buffer with Italy unless Yonni tried to get fancy down south. Germany was ok until we saw just where the dice landed. I think yous a' got away wi' murder, ah'll have you ken. Competitive. It's not all about tallyho, let's go and trounce the nearest country. Don't try to sell me short. There are ways and ways. That was my way. I could have won. Please, don't diss me or whoever is going to do so is going to get his ass kicked next time around . . . covertly. Maybe yous all don't understand real diplomacy.
07 Mar 13 UTC Correct. This is fighting talk . . . from a Celt who is learning to be more devious. Danger. Bring it on!.
07 Mar 13 UTC Italy, the biggest screamer, although I helped him out of a difficult situation with Austria, would have been mince.
07 Mar 13 UTC Germany and I would have destroyed you all. Then, probably fought to the death (peaceful Bombadil and peaceful Timur or not). Would you have preferred that? We could rewind, if this was a movie.
08 Mar 13 UTC LOL Timur. I hope other people read this too.

Anyway - I was trying to light a fire under your ass in that game. I don't think you understood exactly what I wanted, but I wasn't trying to be mean. I just wanted to sound that way for the moment.

From your EOG it seems that you never did consider working with me going forward. From a startegy point of view there is tons of valid reasons for Russia to work with G OR E in this game, had it continued. E would have been a good ally since he was just trying to survive, and the two of you could have made a dent in Germany - he couldn't defend two sides. While had you worked with Germany, it probably would have ended as you describe, G and R duking it out for the solo. Those are 50/50 odds, give or take, but if you could position to be in a solo or be stalemated position, the risk is way lower and that is what siding with England would have accomplished.

I'd play with you again if you would agree not to hold this game against me :-P

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Germany
Tom Bombadil (3854 D (G))
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 5 D
8 supply-centers, 8 units
Russia
Timur (774 D (B))
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 5 D
8 supply-centers, 8 units
England
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 5 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
Italy
Yonni (123 D (S))
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 5 D
5 supply-centers, 5 units
France
Draugnar (0 D X)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 5 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
Austria
Cachimbo (1181 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 5 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
Turkey
NigeeBaby (100 D (G))
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 5 D
1 supply-centers, 1 units
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